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Old 08-27-2005, 09:54 PM   #1
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Tank is UP AND RUNNING! Questions and pics...

First of all, thank you to everyone on this board for helping me put this tank together. This board was just about the only place I get information from, I don't know anyone with a tank . Anyways, as you can see by the pics my water is very cloudy, but I think that is to be expected with sand(which I cleaned). If it doesnt clear up in a day then I will start to worry. Anyways, I put some dechlorinator(or whatever its called) into the tank, and I have some ace hardware ammonia ready to put in. However, there are tons of bubbles all on the glass. Will these go away, or should I wipe these away? Also, when should I had the ammonia and how much of it should I put in? Its a 55g tank, and if you are curious I am running a cascade 1000. My last question is this: in my filter I have carbon, floss, and pre-filter media. is there anything else I need in my filter? Thanks for you help.
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Old 08-27-2005, 10:02 PM   #2
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The bubbles will go away on their own. The sand cloudiness will also settle on its own.

Excellent choice of filter. The only thing you need in your filter is the sponge, filter floss, and ceramic rings. Some use carbon, but its not needed. Other stuff can be added, but it depends on what you plan on keeping (ie: If you have a natural tap pH of 6.0 and want to keep Africans). But you probably don't need anything else.

Add the ammonia as soon as you want. You don't need to wait for the cloudiness to go away.
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Old 08-27-2005, 10:08 PM   #3
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Yes...start dosing the ammonia immediately. Add enough until you get to about 2ppm. Then sit back and relax.
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Old 08-27-2005, 10:54 PM   #4
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Edit: This post is incorrect! see the post below!

For the ace janitorial strength 10% solution, 0.17 ml's per 10 gallons is 1 ppm. 0.34 ml for 2 ppm per 10 gallons. If one drop is about one tenth of an ml, you need three drops per 10 gals more or less, or 15 drops for a 55 gal tank (many 55's are a few gallons less). Add 10 drops, measure, then add more if needed. Or get a 1 ml or 3 ml syringe and dose it exact.
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Old 08-27-2005, 11:44 PM   #5
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wow nice math. I had no idea it was such a small amount. I just put some in and while measure tomorrow. Another question- While my tank is cycling should I leave the light on the whole time? That promotes bacteria, correct?
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Old 08-28-2005, 11:16 AM   #6
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Aarghhh! made a mistake! The above math is not correct! The correct dose is twice that! I did it from memory, and I was wrong. It is actually 0.34 ml for 1 ppm in a 10 gal tank. Here's the math:

All Glass “10 gal” tank, fill to bottom of black trim:
Internal Dimensions: 11inches by 9.75inches by 19.5 inches =
27.94cm x 24.765cm x 49.53 cm = 34271.5 cc = 34.27 liters
or L in x W in x H in x 2.54 cubed (16.387)
Ace Hardware Ammonium10% sol =100grams per liter = 0.1 grams per ml = 100 mg per ml
1 ppm is 1 mg per liter (1gram per 1,000,000cc = 1gram per1000Liters =1mg per 1 Liter)
34.27liters x 1 mg/L is 34.27mg in the whole tank filled to bottom of black trim.
34.27mg / 100mg/ml = .34 ml in the tank for 1 ppm.

So, you need 30 drops approximately for that 55 gal tank, if your drop is one tenth of an ml. Notice in the math above I calculated the internal volume of the tank at the level I would have the water to be exact. The actual volume is not 10 gals, but it is a 10 gal tank. I goofed in my earlier post because I was running an experiment a while ago, and when I had to top off the ammonia I added half the original dose. When it came time to remember the dose, the half dose number stuck in my mind. Ooops! I checked my 0.34 ml per 10 gal tank dose with a test kit, and it is spot on. sorry for the confusion
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Old 08-28-2005, 11:16 AM   #7
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Ok, took my first measurements. Ammonia was about 1 ppm, so I added some more to the water. Also tested my ph, which was about 8.1. I think that is high, but I want to keep cichlids and I think this is ideal. Correct?
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Old 08-28-2005, 11:19 AM   #8
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he he - I posted my correction above before you got to read it! Notice how it held up - I goofed and gave you half the correct amount, and you got half the desired level!

i don't think the lights on or off make any difference.
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Old 08-28-2005, 11:21 AM   #9
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Absolutely...for African Rift lake cichlids. I would also test the water's kh value.

*Nice formula TomK2...obviously I did not have that equation handy...

I
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Old 08-28-2005, 11:34 AM   #10
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JC- I was running experiments on the dose response curve of fishless cycling, trying to determine what concentration, if any, provided the fastest result. I did do the experiments on how much ammonia to add to get the desired ppm, so I could quantify how much ammonia was converted and how much more to add back. I started tanks at 1 ppm and 2 ppm, intending to also test 3, 4, and 5 ppm. But every time I started a test tank, before it was done, I had a need for it and ended the experiment prematurely. Then summer came and I knew I would be out of town a lot. Now I made one of the test tanks a planted tank, and the other is my QT. So I guess a TFH publication is not as exciting to me as playing with the tanks.
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Old 08-28-2005, 11:43 AM   #11
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I remember your experiment (slow in one tank/fast in the other). Not to worry, TFH will stand without it...LOL.

*Apologies for going off-topic manoosie*
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Old 08-28-2005, 11:53 AM   #12
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Just tested my kh, and got 196.9. Thats good for cichlids again right?
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Old 08-28-2005, 11:59 AM   #13
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If I recall the formula, that is about 4-5dkh? Outstanding if I'm correct.
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Old 08-28-2005, 12:07 PM   #14
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Dont you devide ppm by 17.9? If so, that puts it at about 11 degrees KH. So you have hard, alkaline water. That is good for most african rift lake cichlids, is it not?

edit: actually, I just assumed with that hardness, you had a higher pH, I didn't see your pH posted.
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Old 08-28-2005, 12:53 PM   #15
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Is 2 ppm of ammonia ideal to start the cycle? I got it just about there (probably 1.8 or so). According to a cycle chart, it looks like the level of ammonia should keep increasing. Will happen on its own or do I need to keep adding, and how much?
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Old 08-28-2005, 01:18 PM   #16
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Keep testing your water every day or every other day for Ammonia. Try to keep the level at 2.0. After a week or so start testing for Nitrites. This level will peak and then decline. After it starts to decline, test for Nitrates. Keep dosing ammonia through the entire process, trying to keep it at 2.0. Eventually the ammonia will disappear and so will the Nitrites. That's when the tank is cycled.
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Old 08-28-2005, 01:21 PM   #17
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Well, most would agree that 5 ppm is getting high, to the point that the ammonia can have inhibitive effects and slow things down. As far as I know, there is no dose response data out there that tells what ppm produces the fastest results. You can cycle with less than 0.25 ppm, it will take about 7 weeks. The question is how much faster 1 ppm or 3 ppm might be? Lots of people might chime in with ancedotal reports of the level they used and how long it took, but there are no controlled studies that I could find.

So, 2 ppm will work. Can't say if more is better. I don't think that 3 ppm would hurt. The higher the ammonia level you use, the higher the amount of nitrite you will get, since just about each ppm of ammonia becomes a ppm of nitrite. Thus, with higher nitrite levels, it will take longer for the nitrite phase to be over. There can be so much variability from city to city, and tank to tank, that its hard to say with certainty.

BTW, how much did it take to get to 2 ppm? And what are you using as a dropper or doser? I have access to syringes, what do you use?
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Old 08-28-2005, 02:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
According to a cycle chart, it looks like the level of ammonia should keep increasing.
Ah, that was if you added fish to a tank and were monitoring the cycle. If your bottle of ace cleaner is the only ammonia source, the ammonia will stay where you put it until the bacteria use it. It is possible to lose a little ammonia that is not from bacterial activity too. In one of my experiments, I lost 0.5 ppm of ammonia without seeing any nitrites. Thus the ammonia either reacted with things in the tank, or diffused out as a gas. I had to replace it, and thats where I got the half dose amount stuck in my head.
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Old 08-28-2005, 03:30 PM   #19
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Well, i have to admit... I just guessed on the Ammonia. Poured what I thought would be 10 drops, but it was probably a little more. Then I repeated it today and got about 2 ppm. So basically I make sure it stays at 2 and watch the nitrites rise till about 2, then at that point I stop regulating the ammonia, and eventually both will fall down to 0. Then I will have some Nitrates (6-7 range?) and my tank is cycled. Are my numbers off, and what about water changes?
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Old 08-28-2005, 03:45 PM   #20
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No water changes are needed until you stock with fish. Before putting in your first fish, do a large water change.

You need to keep adding ammonia so the bacteria has something to feed off of.
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