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Old 08-24-2013, 12:18 AM   #61
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I just came across this article that puts a new twist into collecting wild fish. It's worth the read: The Cardinal Tetra, an Aquarium Fish to Save the Rainforest - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

I was actually looking into statistics of wild neons in the pet trade and the articles I found all agree, 95% of the neon tetras in the US pet trade, are tank bred specimens from Asia with only 5% coming from wild stock.
I then came across this statement from PETWATCH:
Little Cause for Concern

Wild populations of Neon Tetras may be declining due to habitat destruction. Neon Tetras in the pet trade are almost exclusively captive-bred, so the pet trade does not appear to significantly threaten native wild populations.
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So put that statement in with the article about cardinals and there's a new view on wild caught fish vs tank bred.

Just trying to inform
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Old 08-24-2013, 06:15 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Andy Sager View Post
I just came across this article that puts a new twist into collecting wild fish. It's worth the read: The Cardinal Tetra, an Aquarium Fish to Save the Rainforest - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

I was actually looking into statistics of wild neons in the pet trade and the articles I found all agree, 95% of the neon tetras in the US pet trade, are tank bred specimens from Asia with only 5% coming from wild stock.
I then came across this statement from PETWATCH:
Little Cause for Concern

Wild populations of Neon Tetras may be declining due to habitat destruction. Neon Tetras in the pet trade are almost exclusively captive-bred, so the pet trade does not appear to significantly threaten native wild populations.
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So put that statement in with the article about cardinals and there's a new view on wild caught fish vs tank bred.

Just trying to inform
That's similar to the fish I'm interested in, it won't be the pet trade that does them in but habitat destruction. Especially since some fish are only found in a couple small ponds.

A good example is this fish actually, Zoogoneticus tequila. It is extinct in the wild because the one place it was found was destroyed; but it still exists in the pet trade a bit. Some breeder's still have it, partly in hopes that one day it can be returned to the wild if its habitat is ever restored.

I guess it begs the questions, when is wild caught not destructive?
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Old 08-24-2013, 01:18 PM   #63
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I guess it begs the questions, when is wild caught not destructive?
That's actually an easy one to answer: It is not destructive when the habitat remains the same and the population remains at sustainable levels.

I googled "Wild Caught Neon Tetras" and also saw an article which contained a video of a Neon collector for the pet trade. In the video, he describes the little "ponds" that he collects the fish in and goes underwater to show the viewer what is down there. (They looked more like cardinals to me but then again, there were no real close ups of the fish. ) He spoke about how they alternate ponds they collect in yearly so the fish have at least a year (probably even longer based on the number of ponds) to repopulate. THAT is sustainable harvesting. ( BTW, Alaska does the same thing with it's seafood collectors. Areas are closed for more times of the year than open so that the fish and crabs have a chance to reproduce without collection pressure. )

Habitat destruction is most likely the biggest threat to wildlife than anything else. Food becomes scarce when there isn't enough area for the food to grow. This in turn makes the wildlife have to share the food that is available which means that the same amount of food is now disbursed to the entire amount of animals or fish which in turn means that no one animal can get A LOT of food so the entire population suffers. Think of it like the grocery store not restocking its shelves. If you didn't get your fill when you were there, the shelves will be empty when you come back.

So wild caught is not always the problem. In fact, that will save the fish lines at some point (IMO).
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Old 09-15-2013, 09:05 PM   #64
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So most neons are wild caught? I got some at PetSmart and one has a spinal defect I related to inbreeding and bad breed stock. More of a reason to breed my healthy ones I guess.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:37 AM   #65
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So most neons are wild caught? I got some at PetSmart and one has a spinal defect I related to inbreeding and bad breed stock. More of a reason to breed my healthy ones I guess.
No. As stated in the article I found, approx. 95% of the Neons in America are tank bred but the majority of the CARDINALS are wild caught fish.

Hope that clears things up
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:34 PM   #66
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Oh! Ok thanks!
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:32 PM   #67
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Random question. Do angelfish that are wildcaught have angelfish aids or do tank raised ones do. Or both?
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:43 PM   #68
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Random question. Do angelfish that are wildcaught have angelfish aids or do tank raised ones do. Or both?
I believe the virus for the Angelfish Aids came from domesticated stock. I doubt wild ones carry the disease. My bout with the disease back in the 1980s came from Angelfish from Thailand.
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:47 PM   #69
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I believe the virus for the Angelfish Aids came from domesticated stock. I doubt wild ones carry the disease. My bout with the disease back in the 1980s came from Angelfish from Thailand.
Is this the disease that makes discus and angelfish incompatible
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:05 PM   #70
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Is this the disease that makes discus and angelfish incompatible
No. The behavior difference of the 2 fish types are what make then not really compatible together ( at least the wild ones.) Wild Discus tend to be more shy and timid and Angelfish tend to be more gregarious which, when it comes to feeding time, tends to make the Discus not get enough food. The caviat to all this may be that the newer domestic strains of Discus may be more adjusted to tank life so they are not as timid. I haven't worked with any of these new strains so I don;t know this for sure.

As for diseases, many of the domesticated South American Cichlids have come down with diseases specific to the specie in many cases. Currently there is a virus that is specific to Dwarf Gouramis. This was developed from the creation of the other color forms of the fish. So with all this, sometimes I think it's better to give up colors for the healthiness of wild fish correctly caught and transported.

Hope this helps
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:18 PM   #71
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No. The behavior difference of the 2 fish types are what make then not really compatible together ( at least the wild ones.) Wild Discus tend to be more shy and timid and Angelfish tend to be more gregarious which, when it comes to feeding time, tends to make the Discus not get enough food. The caviat to all this may be that the newer domestic strains of Discus may be more adjusted to tank life so they are not as timid. I haven't worked with any of these new strains so I don;t know this for sure.

As for diseases, many of the domesticated South American Cichlids have come down with diseases specific to the specie in many cases. Currently there is a virus that is specific to Dwarf Gouramis. This was developed from the creation of the other color forms of the fish. So with all this, sometimes I think it's better to give up colors for the healthiness of wild fish correctly caught and transported.

Hope this helps
Wow. You know your stuff. Do you work at a lfs or is this a extreme live for the hobby.
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:45 PM   #72
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Wow. You know your stuff. Do you work at a lfs or is this a extreme live for the hobby.
If you read my BIO, you'll see that I have been a Tropical Fish Hobbyist since 1964 and was in the Tropical Fish business for over 40 years. I've had the opportunity to import fish from all around the world thereby needing to learn all about them to keep them alive. I have also spent many years as a commercial Tropical Fish Breeder so I really had to learn my fish.
I took "just a hobby" and made it my livelyhood. Freshwater, Saltwater, Wholesale, Retail, Importer, Exporter, Collector, Breeder..... I've done all that That's how I know all this stuff
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