Tank vs wild lifespan

[Delapool]

Looking at fish care sheets I'll often see fish life spans different between aquariums and in the wild.

Where it's shorter in the aquarium I'm wondering why? Am I missing something they need? And are they accurate at all anyways.

For example this random one I found below. In the wild plus 15years and in captivity 10 to 15 years only. This is not the best example but assuming tank size is reasonable and fish food semi-decent I would think aquarium fish should do better on life span?


Facts About Suckerfish | Animals - mom.me

 

[ImACoolguy]

I can understand the size difference. But you would think that fish would live longer in aquariums? I mean, many of us on here pamper them. Stable water temp, little/no aggression, high quality foods. What are we missing that makes such an impact on lifespan?


Caleb

 

[gilpi]

A fish tank will never come close to the natural state our fish come from. Combine that with stress and I'm surprised they last as long as they do in captivity.


Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

 

[Delapool]

I was actually thinking it would be better? Or does it tie into the size difference of wild vs tank fish length.

Would tank size be the issue? Not sure what they are missing out on here.

I assume foods would be better (or maybe not or we over feed). Not sure on infections - I guess the limits of tank size there again.

 

[Andy Sager]

One of the issues of comparing wild vs tank living is that we can't ( or don't) recreate the natural diversities that fish live through during a typical lifetime which can have very strong health effects. For some fish, say Amazonian fish, they go through periods where they live in the flooded areas getting foods that they don't usually eat throughout the rest of the year. Then there are some that get nutrients from the soil they ingest which we cannot duplicate in a fish tank. Then again, you need to think about comparing only a wild fish being kept in a tank VS the wild. Most of today's fish are not wild and are genetically inferior to their wild counterparts and subject to an earlier demise.
HOWEVER, there is another facet you need to consider: in the wild, a dominant fish will exert themselves much more frequently against a number of rivals that are "coming up" while in a tank, we tend to intercede and remove the rivals. Once the wild dominant fish has been unseeded, they tend to go off and live for a very short amount of time vs in a tank where they are allowed the luxuries of still being cared for. Then again, in the wild, older animals tend to be killed off before they would naturally die whereas in a tank, old age is a common occurrence and expected by our fish keeping skills. This is why more zoo animals live longer when properly housed in a zoo than when left in the wild.

Then there is the food issue for fish. In the wild fish get a copious amount of live foods which gives them nutrients that a flake or prepared food just can not duplicate. So how can you compare tank living to wild living at all? At best, you can get an average with a huge +/- differential.

So you see, there is no real way of saying that in a tank will live better than in the wild ( or vice versa) because there are many variables and most of the fish are not close enough to wild to compare accurately.

So the best you can do is to do the best you can to keep your fish as healthy as possible by giving them the things they like and need in a natural setting while in an aquarium. Just remember, we now have fish in the hobby that have never seen the wild because they are totally man made. Consider this: how long would a Parrot Cichlid last when placed in the wild areas of the fish that were hybridized to create them. Chances are, not too long at all.

Hope this helps

 

[ImACoolguy]

Very informative Andy. Thanks for the read.


Caleb

 

[Andy Sager]

Very informative Andy. Thanks for the read.


Caleb

This is one of the problems with fish keeping today: comparisons. They just are not fair. You can't compare a fish that lives in the wild to a similar fish that is now 90 or 100 generations separated from their wild ancestors. It's not the same fish, even tho they look alike. Likewise, you can't treat the domesticated fish ( in regards to feeding and natural effects of droughts and fastings) as if it were wild. It's comparing Apples and Oranges. It would be great if it weren't but that's just not the case.

Regarding the quoted article, the author wasn't even a fish keeper according to her bio. What makes her an authority to even give out this information? Could it be that she is just regurgitating some internet mis facts? Who knows. To me, if you want to know fish facts, you go to places that actually keep fish for study & display, ( Public aquariums, Museums) or read expert scientific authors that make their findings known through scientific literature. They are not that difficult to find anymore with the internet.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Delapool]

That was kind of my other problem. Bearing in mind that was just a random link I found on the train (where most of my research is done ), I have never seen any studies mentioned on life span or length. It's all just quoted on the Internet. I assume there is a study somewhere but who knows and is it dated??

I guess though I was thinking if there are any couple of things that may help with tank life span that I might be missing. Food I think is a good point.

I also every so often create flooded conditions, alas this is outside the fish tank. The environment though, yeah - I can't really hope to replicate that. I guess?

 

[Andy Sager]

I also every so often create flooded conditions, alas this is outside the fish tank. The environment though, yeah - I can't really hope to replicate that. I guess?

And that's just my point. Just take good care of your fish

 

[Delapool]

Sounds good advice ?

 

[skylane]

One of the issues of comparing wild vs tank living is that we can't ( or don't) recreate the natural diversities that fish live through during a typical lifetime which can have very strong health effects. For some fish, say Amazonian fish, they go through periods where they live in the flooded areas getting foods that they don't usually eat throughout the rest of the year. Then there are some that get nutrients from the soil they ingest which we cannot duplicate in a fish tank. Then again, you need to think about comparing only a wild fish being kept in a tank VS the wild. Most of today's fish are not wild and are genetically inferior to their wild counterparts and subject to an earlier demise.
HOWEVER, there is another facet you need to consider: in the wild, a dominant fish will exert themselves much more frequently against a number of rivals that are "coming up" while in a tank, we tend to intercede and remove the rivals. Once the wild dominant fish has been unseeded, they tend to go off and live for a very short amount of time vs in a tank where they are allowed the luxuries of still being cared for. Then again, in the wild, older animals tend to be killed off before they would naturally die whereas in a tank, old age is a common occurrence and expected by our fish keeping skills. This is why more zoo animals live longer when properly housed in a zoo than when left in the wild.

Then there is the food issue for fish. In the wild fish get a copious amount of live foods which gives them nutrients that a flake or prepared food just can not duplicate. So how can you compare tank living to wild living at all? At best, you can get an average with a huge +/- differential.

So you see, there is no real way of saying that in a tank will live better than in the wild ( or vice versa) because there are many variables and most of the fish are not close enough to wild to compare accurately.

So the best you can do is to do the best you can to keep your fish as healthy as possible by giving them the things they like and need in a natural setting while in an aquarium. Just remember, we now have fish in the hobby that have never seen the wild because they are totally man made. Consider this: how long would a Parrot Cichlid last when placed in the wild areas of the fish that were hybridized to create them. Chances are, not too long at all.

Hope this helps

Great read Andy, I couldn't put it that well!!!
Well we know the impact a foreign species could have introduced into the wild or not native too. But as for a parrot cichlids, man made, weird things happen in the natural world. What if it did survive and then bonded with another fish in the wild, or if there where more released at the same time, I think that evolution can play out...just a thought to this???
I do agree its chances would be slim to survive but weird things happen when animal are introduced. I believe where you live in Florida is a prime example of this, a lot of non species thrive there.[emoji50]

Clem

 

[Laeris]

Great read Andy, I couldn't put it that well!!!
Well we know the impact a foreign species could have introduced into the wild or not native too. But as for a parrot cichlids, man made, weird things happen in the natural world. What if it did survive and then bonded with another fish in the wild, or if there where more released at the same time, I think that evolution can play out...just a thought to this???
I do agree its chances would be slim to survive but weird things happen when animal are introduced. I believe where you live in Florida is a prime example of this, a lot of non species thrive there.[emoji50]

Clem

Love bugs ftl!

 

[skylane]

That's why I chose this hobby, l like all animals, but this one is about water and its creatures... Fish.
Just by learning and trying to understand an aquarium and how it works, the water is what is key!!!
As well as plants and fish in a freshwater setting or even the marine set up with corals.
Having an aquarium gives me an opportunity to observe a world where in my opinion life came from...the water.
Sorry if I derailed this thread or offended anyone.[emoji50]

Clem

 

[Gillie]

Have you run a search on Google Scholar? You may get a hit there, but it will likely be pretty much what Andy said.

 

[skylane]

I guess you have to Google everything???

Clem

 

[ImACoolguy]

I guess you have to Google everything???

Clem

Easiest way to find those scholarly articles


Caleb

 

[54seaweed]

wild vs tank raised fish I always find this type of discussion very fulfilling , as one always learns more about this , the lifespan of wild fish compared to tank raised if fish were left in the wild yes there lifespan would increase now at the same time if these fish are raised in captivity the wild fishes lifespan will decrease by around 30% ,
now if you keep the same fish but the only difference was they were brought into the world in a closed system the lifespan can increase because they are not exposed to any of the outside pollutants that our waters through out the world contain , as in a closed system the water is filtered and are less likely to have any contaminants ,
a wild caught fish there immune system is different from a tank raised fish , wild caught fish are more prone to have disease and less likely to be able to fight it off in captivity, now a tank raised fish there seems to be a conflict some say tank raised fight off illness faster others claim they don't , but a good majority say in a closed system tank raised over wild caught fish have a longer lifespan , for some odd reason tank raised fish have a stronger immune system and can fight off disease Faster.

 

[Andy Sager]

wild vs tank raised fish I always find this type of discussion very fulfilling , as one always learns more about this , the lifespan of wild fish compared to tank raised if fish were left in the wild yes there lifespan would increase now at the same time if these fish are raised in captivity the wild fishes lifespan will decrease by around 30% ,
now if you keep the same fish but the only difference was they were brought into the world in a closed system the lifespan can increase because they are not exposed to any of the outside pollutants that our waters through out the world contain , as in a closed system the water is filtered and are less likely to have any contaminants ,
a wild caught fish there immune system is different from a tank raised fish , wild caught fish are more prone to have disease and less likely to be able to fight it off in captivity, now a tank raised fish there seems to be a conflict some say tank raised fight off illness faster others claim they don't , but a good majority say in a closed system tank raised over wild caught fish have a longer lifespan , for some odd reason tank raised fish have a stronger immune system and can fight off disease Faster.

I think you are forgetting that wild fish have a big disadvantage over tank raised ones that strongly effects lifespan: Predation. Pollution is not as much a factor when comparing wild versus tank raised. If you compare a wild fish living in pristine waters and compare it to a tank raised fish living in the same conditions, even being fed the same foods, usually, the tank kept fish has a longer lifespan because they don't have the predation factor to deal with.
As for immunity systems of wild versus tank raised, one could say that wild fish have a lot more instances of attacks of diseases yet they survive them better than fish kept in closed systems. Then you have the man made diseases that are now built into the tank raised fish ( ie Dwarf Gourami disease and Angelfish Aids) so I question that tank raised fish actually have a "better" immune system than wild fish.

Then you have this other factor: It's "survival of the fittest" in the wild but it's "how many can we keep" in a tank. Nature provided that the stronger animals have better chances to survive than the weak. In the tank raised fish, "the fittest" is not always the fish that are bred for the market.

Which brings us back to my original idea that you can't compare accurately because you are not comparing apples to apples. So let's go back to studies of other animals. Take my old Squirrel Monkey for example. The following article ( http://www.worldanimalfoundation.net/f/squirrelmonkey.pdf) describes wild Squirrel Monkeys to have a lifespan of about 15 years while captive ones have a 20 year lifespan. When I first got mine, it was thought that wilds lived 15-20 years and captives 20-25 years. Mine died at the ripe old age of 23 1/2 years old after living with me for a little more than 21 years. So he definitely exceeded the expected lifespan of a wild specimen.
There are also many reports of animals living under the protection of advanced zoos outliving their wild counterparts. Again, this is because the animals have a major stressor removed from their lives. So the appearance is that captive outlives wild.

Just sayin'.

 

[skylane]

Easiest way to find those scholarly articles


Caleb

Hi Caleb, how is your tank repairs going?you've been busy man!

Clem

 

[Andy Sager]

I guess you have to Google everything???

Clem

Only if you don't have the books by the experts and those who know.