The LFS condemned fishless cycling!

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I only cycle with fish.
Not that i'm going to enforce it on anyone though..Each to their own.

I agree with tropicfishman. It's not hard, and can be done quite succesfully without harming the fish.
 
DeFeKt said:
I only cycle with fish.
Not that i'm going to enforce it on anyone though..Each to their own.

I agree with tropicfishman. It's not hard, and can be done quite succesfully without harming the fish.

Can you comment on why?
 
I've always cycled with fish. i simply use a low stocking density with plenty of plants.
oh, and i hate staring at an empty tank for a loooooong time. i'd rather do pwc's.
but as DeFeKt mentioned, to each his/her own.
 
I also only cycle with fish. I haven't had any problems with it and haven't found any convincing evidence that it's worse than fishless if done properly. Like triazole, I also have always had live plants and low density. But as has been said again and again...there's lots of ways to end up in the same place that all work fine. :)
 
I also cycle with fish. I stock slowly, introduce plants early (even if it is just a copious amount of guppy grass to absorb ammonia), and keep up on parameters.

Just something inside me is against dosing pure ammonia from ACE hardware to a tank. it seems unnatural. I wouldn't let it touch my skin, why would i put it in my fishtank?
 
The ammonia isn't staying in the tank, it's being converted and eventually becomes non-toxic and gets destroyed before it's able to hurt the fish. It's no different than the fish producing the ammonia themselves, it's the same thing, just less of a chance of them getting too stressed while waiting for the cycle to end.
 
The first time I ever set up my fw tank I cycled with fish- 3 lemon tetras and lost all of them then got 3 white clouds one of them is still alive (5 yrs later). But I didn't have plants when I started out.

I think for fw if you add a few fish with a lot of plants (fast growing plants are better starting out) then it is ok. Just keep up on the parameters and everything should be fine.

I set up my 54 corner fw planted about two months ago using tons of plants and combining all my fish into one tank and no large NH3 spike. The tank is fine now. I'll post a pic tonight or tomorrow.

But with SW I would definitely go fishless everytime.
 
You are right, and i understand how the breakdown of ammonia works, but aesthetically i can't justify adding a toxic chemical to my tank. It is a mental thing. Something that says "Janitorial Strength" just shouldn't go in my tank. I am more apt to fishlessly cycle with a dead shrimp, as this isn't "Janitorial Strenght" , and doesn't come with an MRSD report attached.

As doe SW, I cycle with curing LR. wham bam, thank you ma'am
 
My LFS uses a chemical on all his tanks. Said it comes from south africa. Basically you get a new tank throw in this powder and add fish 6 hrs later. No filters on any tanks. Use the powder once a week/month depending on bio load. He swears by it. He said he does 1 water change per tank a month. He also said its saved him about 40% in deaths. Hes using it for a year now. Sorry cant remember the name.
 
FishFingers said:
My LFS uses a chemical on all his tanks. Said it comes from south africa. Basically you get a new tank throw in this powder and add fish 6 hrs later. No filters on any tanks. Use the powder once a week/month depending on bio load. He swears by it. He said he does 1 water change per tank a month. He also said its saved him about 40% in deaths. Hes using it for a year now. Sorry cant remember the name.

Did he also buy it from a Nigerian prince or military leader asking to stash a lot of money? :wink:

I'd be curious to know what this is if you can find out. If it's such a great product, why hasn't it reached the rest of us? Share!
 
Sounds like a powdered ammo-lock type product. The tank is never really cycled but the chemicals just soak up or convert the ammonia produced.
 
For anyone saying "I ALWAYS cycle this way, I ALWAYS cycle that way..." Do you not already have at least one established tank either in your house or at a friend's house?

All you need is some gravel or a used filter pad or sponge and you're golden.

I just started up a 75 gallon tank last week and today when I began stocking it I put a used filter pad from the 10 gallon tank I'm replacing into one of the new filters on the 75. I shouldn't ever see an ammonia spike.
 
hehe... the cycling debate is hotter than the breast feeding debate on the pregnancy forum my wife used to host... but not nearly as attractive...:)
 
Fishless cycling with ammonia is the way to go. I dont see in any way how fish can be harmed doing this as long as ur using ammonia pure that is mixed with various amounts of water, depending on the brand. The ammonia put in the tank is no longer ammonia when the cycle is finished, its nitrate. Fish poop turns into the same toxic ammoina ur putting in to the tank. Its the same stuff like...i dont kno how to explain it better then that.

after the cycle , You do a huge water change and the nitrates are preety much all gone. Then there u go, u got a tank and a filter full of good bacteria and your fish never come into contact with high amounts of ammonia or nitrite.

As long as u keep track of how much it takes to get to 5-7 ppm of ammonia, and keep dosing that each day until the nitrite shows, then cut that amount of ammonia in half for the rest of the cycle, it can be done no problem. The good thing about it too is, your in control of everything thats going on and u dont gotta worry about high amounts of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate in the tank. No need to change ne water til the end.

Inmy experience with fishless cyclying,on my 48 gal, i was able to fully sstock the tank with cichlids when it was finished. it worked perfect. I did that last summer and not a single fish has ever died in that tank( other then someconvict fry which were eaten, fufilling their purpose).

its justs like 7 enigma said,
to the lfs its new and they maybe even might notunderstand it . Its a new thing and its gona take a while for everyone to catch on.

and u kno the lfs is gona try to delay this obviosyly cause this new way is gona mean less money coming in off of thigns already mentioned like cycle, cultured gravel, etc, which will no longer have any purpose,altho i must say cycle already has no purpose other then getting $$.

bottomline, its easier on the wallet to fishless cycle and easier to do overall with less effort, mind u understand the nitrogen cycle and kno wut ur doing.
 
If I have to pick between waiting a month or more looking at my empty tank, dropping in Ammonia and spending $3 on cultured gravel from the LFS, I know what I would pick.
 
yeah sorry i forgot, having something to culture the tank when fishless cycling is needed for it to be done fast. in that case cultured gravel wud still be usefull...but filter media and decorations(like big rocks) work faster in my opinion.

lol i didnt raelise there was a 2nd pagebefore my first post on this topoc. sory for some of the repetition. berserkr already explained better alot of waht i was trying to say.
 
mvigor said:
If I have to pick between waiting a month or more looking at my empty tank, dropping in Ammonia and spending $3 on cultured gravel from the LFS, I know what I would pick.

Seeding a tank will only contribute to the cycle, it certainly won't accomplish it entirely unless the seeded material is large enough in quantity to meet the needs of the tank.
Take your earlier example: you used a 10G sponge in a 75G tank. Not going to 'insta-cycle' it, I'm afraid. Now, if you used the filter material from your cycled 75G to seed a 10G, then yes, it might do it instantly. You still need to 'feed' the bacteria though which will quickly die off if your 75G had an oscar and your 10G had four tetra etc.

Gravel/substrate is also generally one of the least effective materials with which to seed. Sure, it can hold some of the beneficial bateria, but far more are present on the filter materials.
 
No, not instantly. But instead of starting out with 1 bacteria, multiplying to 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128 . . . . 32 billion
--
...you start out with 2 billion, 4B, 8B, 16B, 32B.... fully cycled in 4 bacteria life cycles...probably 2 days.

Combine that with gradually increasing bio-load stocking plan and you're definitely golden.

I threw 22 Neon Tetra and 2 Clown Loaches in the new 75 on Friday and as of today, all are accounted for.
 
I am a fan of Bio Spira. I have used 3 times now and about to use it on my new 125g. I call it time in a bottle. You can pretty much put in the BIO SPIRA and within a few hours add your fish. Cycle done less than a day. NO HARM TO ANYTHING!!! and no empty tank for weeks.
 
Personally I cycled with fish, but can understand the benifits behind the fishless cycle. I don't really care how someone cycles as long as they have their facts right but 9 times out of 10 your average joe cycles with miss-information such as plants "soaking" up ammonia or by using ammonia removing chemicals will cycle faster. These things arn't true and these and plenty other myths about cycling unfortunatly are perpetuated by the LFS's. Personally I'm not taking advice from anyone who sells 1G "goldfish" and "betta" bowls, now thats inhumane!
 
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