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Old 08-18-2013, 11:59 PM   #541
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Any idea how long it took me to read this whole thread ? I love your enthusiasm loach boy, it's refreshing, reminds me of me at your age.

If you get Otos, can I offer a little advice for when you do ? Try to get them after they have been in the store tanks for at least a week, and longer is better. They are lovely little fish, very entertaining, and sure do eat algae. But they are caught wild using cyanide to stun them, which is pretty common, actually. Then they don't get fed for awhile. They rely on bacteria in their guts to digest their algae for them and these die off while they are held. So when they get to a store, they are starving, but even if they eat, they might die, as the bacteria take a long time to grow back.

So if you wait, the weakest ones will, sadly, die. Then the strongest ones will be left, and you will have a better chance that they will live. Try to go at feeding time, see which ones are eating the algae tabs, because some don't learn to eat them. Get the guys who are eating and have fat bellies. They like their own company, so 3 is the very least you should keep. One will be very lonely indeed.

And also, reconsider those dwarf gouramis. The one you lost, that's very common and it is not likely caused by anything you did. It's very common for these fish to die suddenly for no apparent reason. Might be inbreeding, might be, who knows ? They can be quite shy, prefer heavy plant coverage, on top and in the substrate, slow to no water current, and while they are very, very pretty, I don't think they are good fish for beginners or for community tanks. Some have good luck with them, but many do not. Just something to think about.

When it's time for fish, make sure to look up the needs of each fish type you are thinking of. Some have needs, for size, or food or company, that make them less suitable as community fish. I happen to love loaches, especially the kuhli types. Black ones I find, are quite outgoing and often are seen, swimming up and down and around, so I like them a lot. Otos will also swim all over the place and so long as there are not too many of them, will get along quite well. Though classed as bottom feeders, Otos really feed anywhere they can find something. Black kuhli loaches do stay down to feed. I also keep cories with loaches, and so far, no problems, but I make sure to drop food in two or three places so they all get a share.

Wish you much success and pleasure with your project. I hope it all turns out just the way you want.
Wow, thanks for the kind words
I do have one oto at the time, I have had it for about 1.5 months now, and it is very entertaining, I am planning on getting two more friends for him soon, I like the idea of going when they have been there for a while, thanks for the tip
Unfortunately, today as I was switching my sand, I got him out in a bet and it got tangled in his mouth, so I had to cut the net and let him out, but there is a piece of it caught on his mouth, how do I go by to take it off?
I know about the unfortunate cases if inbreeding in DW's and the DG disease, I am planning on getting one, I'll try it, I have one in my 55 gallon community, but I will certainly give it a shot, and my tank is going to be plenty planted
Thanks for reading my thread
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Old 08-19-2013, 12:35 AM   #542
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Removing a bit of net from the fish mouth could be tricky. If he can't get rid of it by himself, you may have to anesthetize him to get it off. It's fairly safe, you use clove oil to put him to sleep, cut off the net, then let him wake up and put him back in the tank.

Clove oil is also used to euthanize sick fish, but it is a standard fish anesthetic as well. Drug stores or health food stores would have it. Dosage is something I will have to look up. Hopefully he can spit it out with a bit of time.
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Old 08-19-2013, 12:37 AM   #543
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Thanks for that

So I mix in a bit if tank water and a bit if that and he will fall asleep? Sounds a bit dangerous, but I'll do it, as long as he wakes up...
It's not stuck in his mouth, more like on his top teeth and on his nose, I'll post a pic of him tomorrow if I can get my hands on him
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Old 08-19-2013, 12:41 AM   #544
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Clove oil is quite safe if used properly and if the fish has healthy gills. I cannot say there is NO risk, but unless the fish is already near death, chances are very good it will be fine.

You use 6- 8 drops to a gallon of water. Add it to half that amount first and shake it really hard for awhile, as it very hard to mix it up.

To euthanize you use a LOT more, so overdosing is not usually a problem so long as you are careful. Count the drops. Even with euthanasia, it takes an hour or more for the fish to pass on. Your Oto is only going to be in there for ten minutes or so, and at far less dosage.

Add the rest of the water. Same temp as your tank. Then gently add the fish. He should not react much, if at all. It causes no distress.

The hardest part is waiting the two or three minutes it will take for him to fall asleep. Once he rolls over on his back or side, then he is asleep. You will see his gill movements are slower, that is normal.

Use the net,or even your hand, but make sure your hands are clean. Lift him out, quickly snip off the stuck piece of net, then place him in a container with just tank water in it and allow him to wake up. He should be just fine. Once he's swimming and not looking wobbly, you can put him back in his tank.

I would have a pair of sterilized tweezers and sterilized sharp scissors ready first, in case it is a bit difficult to get the net off. He should lie still enough. If it takes you more than a minute or two to get it off, put him back into the clove oil for another two minutes, then finish up. He can go for two or three minutes out of water once he is asleep, but shorter times out of water are safer if the net does not come off easily.
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Old 08-19-2013, 12:52 AM   #545
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Wow, ok thanks! I will definitely do that! Do you think they sell it at advertsons or Walgreens?
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Old 08-19-2013, 12:58 AM   #546
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I live in Canada, so I'm not terribly familiar with US stores. But any pharmacy can order it for you if they don't have it in stock. It is often used for toothache. Be certain is is PURE CLOVE OIL, or it might be called Essential Oil of Cloves. Make sure it is not cut with alcohol or something else.

It is good to have on hand, for this kind of thing, and if you have a sick fish that is not getting better, you can save it suffering, just like a dog or cat. It is not easy but it is kinder.
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:00 AM   #547
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Ok thanks! I'll see it is 100% clove oil with nothing else added
So I can kill the oto if I put too much in?
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:01 AM   #548
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Yes. you can. So count the drops carefully. There is a fairly large margin between the safe dose and a fatal dose, but if you just pour oil, instead of drop by drop, yeah, it can kill. So be careful.

I've had to put a few fish down. They had dropsy, can't be cured. It took over an hour and a half for the fish to stop moving its gills entirely. But it rolled over in about three minutes or so, then sank slowly to the bottom. So unless you leave poor Oto in the oil mix for an hour, he should be fine and wake up without problems. But it is like anything that can kill, the difference is in the dose you use and the time the fish is exposed to it. The quicker you get the net off, the sooner he goes back in regular water and then should be no worries.

If he cannot get that net off himself, it will damage his skin, he could get infected, or be unable to eat properly. So you may well save his life by using the oil so you can handle him safely.
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:02 AM   #549
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Wow, ok so would 5 drops per gallon work?
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:09 AM   #550
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Not likely. You must understand, it is like medicine. If you use too little it will not work. If you use too much it can make you sick or kill you.

I understand you are worried but truly, if you follow the directions, things should go well.
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:10 AM   #551
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Ok, I trust you, so 8 drops per gallon?
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:12 AM   #552
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Yes, that's right. It does take time to mix up, it is oil and water after all. Shake really hard. And I hope he gets it off himself so you won't have to help him. But at least now you know how to help.
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Old 08-19-2013, 01:18 AM   #553
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Ok thanks for the help
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:27 AM   #554
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Ok guys so again I have re thought my stock and I know I'm not overstocked as aqadvisor says I'm like 124% stocked and overstocked is 132 I believe, so here is my new stock
5 harlequin rasboras
5 glow light tetras
1 dwarf gourami
1 velvet wag swordtail
3 oto cats
1 bn pleco
4 kuhli loaches
3 or 4 false Julii cories
1 Raphael catfish
1 Bolivian ram
What do you guys think? I replaced some fish with high bio loads so I could add the 2 small tetra schools and I took your guys's advice, I'm getting only one pleco
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:50 AM   #555
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I'd skip the raphael catfish -- they deserve bigger tank. I'd prbably look to maybe bump a few other fish in favor of upping your schools too.
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Old 08-22-2013, 06:57 AM   #556
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I'd skip the raphael catfish -- they deserve bigger tank. I'd prbably look to maybe bump a few other fish in favor of upping your schools too.
I agree, unfortunately he already has it. A fish with an adult size of 7-9" in a 29 gallon is a bad idea.

Loach, 100% is stocked, anything over that is over stocked, strictly speaking literally. When you put all your info into aqadvisor are you using the adult sizes of the fish or are you putting in the size they are now?
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:43 AM   #557
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No guys wait, the striped Raphael I just have it now because it is too small and I'm afraid it will go inside some decor I have in my 55 gallon tank right now and get stuck there, but it will eventually go in my 55 gallon tank, I'm substituting this one for a spotted one whenever I can find it
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Old 08-23-2013, 02:21 PM   #558
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Dwarf gourami's are great but have you considered any alternatives, they can be aggressive towards fish with long flowing fins.
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Old 08-23-2013, 04:22 PM   #559
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I really want one, and if it doesn't work I have thought of a honey gourami
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Old 08-24-2013, 11:58 AM   #560
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try pygmy sparkling gourami
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