tight schooling fish for hard water

[tetrin]

well this might sound like an ad...but is not...
i need to find a tight schooling fish...hoping for a large school of over 12...
should be also able to tolerate a ph above 7.6...

possible choices...
rainbows...(too big and fast for my liking)
danios ...(too fast and zippy)
neons ...(probably does best in softer regimes)
harlequin rasboras (again probably prefer acidic water)
tiger barbs (too nippy....would like to keep angels in future)
rummy nose tetra (too touchy for my experience level)
serpae tetra (again nippy)

ultimately i might end up with the rasboras or the serpae's in future...
any suggestions are welcome....

tank - 55g
current inhabitants -
2*rosy barbs (rest went to fishy heaven)
2*pearl gouramis
2*gold gouramis
2*clown loaches
2*black skirt tetras (would make that 5)
1*SAE (would make that at least 4)
1*CAE

thanks in advance

[BrianNY]

Tiger barbs would do well with the other fish in that tank. I wouldn't worry about the pH as long as it's stable. Agree that you should avoid rummy nose however, but the rasboras are also a good choice. JMO

[Menagerie]

I love white clouds! I have over 15 in my 50 gal and they (for the most part) school. The pH is around 7.6 ish.

[tetrin]

thanks brian...i had tiger barbs in mind...but the main glitch was that i never find them without ich in my lfs...every batch that comes in has ich definitely within the first week or so...i guess the breeding is at fault...
Menagerie...i am not sure white clouds are tight schoolers...but will definitely give them a try if i can't find anything else...i mean i just saw some 'brass tetras' in my lfs...and wow...did they school...actually i guess it depends on the need to school...the brass guys were pretty teeny-weeny...

[rubysoho]

I thought fish didn't school (but shoal with is the loose form of schooling) until you got them in tanks of 100 gallons or more?

[tetrin]

small fish will school/shoal in any condition as long as there exists a threat to their existence...i mean as long as they think they need protection from some predator...it's really hard to distinguish an individual from a school...i have seen this countless times in my lfs...
as for the nippy fish like tiger barbs or serpae tetras...i guess they school so as not to miss out on the joy they derive on nipping each other ...

[rubysoho]

oh ok... I bet you'd be just fine with the rummynosed tetras (obviously you care enough to come to this site to ask questions). You have a large tank so it is easier to keep water conditions under control. I think they are so pretty and fell for them when I saw them in the planted display discus tank at my LFS. Just acclimate them slowly so they aren't shocked if there is a big difference in your LFS's tanks and your tank.

[poikilotherm]

I would not ignore some of the more high-pH tolerant tetras, like Diamond, Penguin, Emperor, and Buenos Aires tetras. Not sure which of those has the best temperament, but it may be something to consider.

[tetrin]

hmm...thanks poikilotherm....
penguin and emperor tetras are high-end tetras and i rarely see them anywhere...
buenos aires tetras are notorious for chewing live plants...i have a few of them ( live plants i mean)...
but diamond tetras may be quite suitable...i am yet to see them in a school...but that's because i have never seen them in large numbers...

[BrianNY]

Wow. Some really nice fish that I seldom think about. Maybe because they are expensive. My lfs had Diamond tetras for $17.99 each. Another really nice tetra is the Alestes Tetra. Bright yellow bands, nice schooling fish if you can find them.

[Menagerie]

My lfs had Diamond tetras for $17.99 each.

That explains why I keep white clouds!!!

[tetrin]

brian must have seen adult ones....my lfs has young ones that are not as gaudy as adult diamond tetras for $3 each...but then there's the associated wait for the colors to develop...

[BrianNY]

Or......................maybe my lfs is a rip off artist

[poikilotherm]

Just to get a feel for an appropriate (low-end?) price estimate, I went over to LiveAquaria.com. It looks like they have penguins for $3-$4, diamonds (coming soon...) and emperors for $7. I'm not recommending buying from there, but if you check whether your lfs (no, not YOUR lfs, Brian) can order something in, you may be able to negotiate a reasonable price. Diamonds for $3 sounds very good, and watching them grow is more rewarding than instant gratification from adults.

[tetrin]

well, you r right poikilotherm...they are not as high-end as i claimed ...
though brian's lfs might make u believe so...
fact is most of these require very good water quality to show off their full gamut of colors and being a novice i don't know whether i'll be able to provide that...i'll do the water changes and all...but still the confidence is just not there yet...of course having a large tank would certainly help matters...
but might as well give it a shot...have to start somewhere...

[TankGirl]

White clouds are cheap and they DO school as long as you have at least 7 or 8 of them, and they stay small so you can get a bunch of them. I have some that are over 4 years old now. Also, you will find it recommended that they be kept in cooler water but mine are in 78 degrees since I've had them.

(I know you are looking at other options but I thought I'd join Menagerie in recommending them )

[ttopmustanggt88]

i have 5 red eyed tetra that stay in a school. they are fun to watch.

[tetrin]

ok...by popular demand i'll start off with about 9-10 of white clouds...but the temp might be a little higher (78-80) for them...with the clown loaches and the ich factor...
oh well...adaptation is the name of the game...should be no problem...

but i'm still undecided about the main species in the tank...
thanks guys...

[rubysoho]

ich factor? If you have ich right now, dont add any fish, not until the ich is disappeared and then still continue treatment for some time after because it can be in the gravel. Then add the clouds.

[FishLover14]

Try some Black and Red Phantom Tetras Great schooling fish.

Dan