Unhappy betta and his new tank

[Carlie]

Hello!

I inherited a betta from my roommie when she moved out.

He's in a 2 gallon glass bowl but has been really unhappy/unhealthy since the cold weather started... He pretty much looks like he's on death's doorstep besides the occassional burst of energy or nest building. Not having exactly planned owning a betta I've been taking a bit of a crash course on them... So, I'm guessing part of his problem is that his little bowl is way too cold for him (64-66F, dropping further at night). Reluctantly discarding Plan A: tiny knitted fish sweaters, I went with Plan B: a 5 gallon aquarium set-up with a 25W heater set at 76/77F.

Having followed the directions that came with the set-up, (rinsing, filling, water conditioning, running filter for 24 hours - well, 48 hours now), I am supposedly able to add fish... but then I stumbled upon "cycling" online. So... are my directions lying to me? Cycling sounds pretty overwhelming... I mean, at least his cold bowl hasn't ever killed him from not being cycled properly.

I'm all for doing what needs to be done... but I'm worried that while the tank is cycling (for 4 to 8 weeks?) he'll succumb to diseases or such from being cold. He's so listless and has had a loss of appetite and some discoloration. I'm really worried about the poor guy.

Thanks for any advice!

 

[theotheragentm]

I would say to keep up with water changes. To develop the bacteria will take longer, but since you have the fish already, you want to keep the water at appropriate bioload levels. If you were to change out 1/5 of the water every week and try to get some of the stuff that settles on the bottom out every third week or so, the Betta should be fine. It's bioload is not so overwhelmingly high that it is going to foul up a 5 gallon tank very quickly. If you buy the smallest gravel vac from PETCO or PetSmart, it should run you no more than $5. That way you can suck up some of the junk that settles on the bottom. If you can get your water change weekly while gravel vacuuming, go for it.

 

[BrianNY]

Agreed. The betta is far better off in a heated environment than risking the results of cycling. I also think that a betta in a 5 gal tank won't be much a cycling issue anyway. Go for it. Important to keep the tank covered as bettas breath air. The water temp and surface air need to be similar.

 

[Carlie]

I would say to keep up with water changes. To develop the bacteria will take longer, but since you have the fish already, you want to keep the water at appropriate bioload levels. If you were to change out 1/5 of the water every week and try to get some of the stuff that settles on the bottom out every third week or so, the Betta should be fine. It's bioload is not so overwhelmingly high that it is going to foul up a 5 gallon tank very quickly. If you buy the smallest gravel vac from PETCO or PetSmart, it should run you no more than $5. That way you can suck up some of the junk that settles on the bottom. If you can get your water change weekly while gravel vacuuming, go for it.

I'll add that to my list! I'm making a pet store run in a few to get water-changing supplies since it sounds like I'll be doing lots of those, and water test strips.

Agreed. The betta is far better off in a heated environment than risking the results of cycling. I also think that a betta in a 5 gal tank won't be much a cycling issue anyway. Go for it. Important to keep the tank covered as bettas breath air. The water temp and surface air need to be similar.

Good to hear! I was scared that he would die either way I went. I hope he does ok... The tank does have a hood on it.



Also, one site I was reading suggested adding a small amount of aquarium salt to betta tanks to help them not get sick... Is this a good idea?

Thanks!

 

[JeffreyL]

Carlie, wonderful to see that you are interested in helping your 'inherited' fish thrive, and not just survive.

The 5 gallon will be great for the little guy!! It is amazing how much more active and engaging they can be with a bit of swimming room. Don't be surprised if he even grows some. And learns to beg shamelessly for food.

One bit of advice I learned the hard way, some bettas will tear or damage fins on sharp objects in their tank. Even some plastic plants are risky. Silk plants, live plants, or other soft decor is safer. Mine at least always seemed to want to squeeze into every tight hole or crevice they could find. Especially if the cories go there!!

As for salt, you will get various opinions, but most here will tell you a healthy betta does not need salt. It can have some theraputic benefits for a sick fish, but a healthy one will not need it.

BTW, what do you feed him? A good betta food is not expensive and will help with general health and color.

Good Luck and keep us posted on his progress!!

P.S. Are you gonna name him? LOL

Jeff

 

[Carlie]

Carlie, wonderful to see that you are interested in helping your 'inherited' fish thrive, and not just survive.

The 5 gallon will be great for the little guy!! It is amazing how much more active and engaging they can be with a bit of swimming room. Don't be surprised if he even grows some. And learns to beg shamelessly for food.

One bit of advice I learned the hard way, some bettas will tear or damage fins on sharp objects in their tank. Even some plastic plants are risky. Silk plants, live plants, or other soft decor is safer. Mine at least always seemed to want to squeeze into every tight hole or crevice they could find. Especially if the cories go there!!

As for salt, you will get various opinions, but most here will tell you a healthy betta does not need salt. It can have some theraputic benefits for a sick fish, but a healthy one will not need it.

BTW, what do you feed him? A good betta food is not expensive and will help with general health and color.

Good Luck and keep us posted on his progress!!

P.S. Are you gonna name him? LOL

Jeff

Thanks Jeffrey!

My roommie had named him Carl. It fits, and before it got cold he seemed to respond to it by coming over and dancing in front of your face. He will still do that once in a while, but it's rather feeble.

He eats HBH Betta Bites. I tried getting him some freeze-dried bloodworms and HBH Betta ColorBright flake food to switch it up a bit in case he got bored, but he won't have anything to do with either. I'm not sure if it's because the Betta Bites are too big, or because he's sickly, but he seems to choke on the little nuggets and spits them back out. Any thoughts? It's painful to watch him try to eat sometimes. Is this normal maybe? I worry that he doesn't get enough because it seems to wear him out, sometimes he gives up and doesn't try to eat a different nugget.

I got him a roomier carved rock cave for his bigger tank, so I hope he doesn't scrape himself as much!

 

[JeffreyL]

Betta bites is good. Our Bruce loved it, but then he ate anything. lol And they should not be too big for an adult. They have a pretty big mouth.

How warm has Carl's tank gotten up to? It sounds like he is still below temp. If not then, watch him for a few days. If he is still listless and not eating at 77F, then you may have a sick betta.

Eating food and spitting it out is not uncommon. They will take in more than they seem able to swallow at once. So like a guy, eh?? But usually they try again. Is he keeping some food in? They really don't need much. The directions said to feed 4 pieces a day, or something like that. Bruce ate more. lol

Of course he was a big boy. Bruce started in a 2 1/2 gal, then after an upgrade, he had a whole 10 gallons to swim in. After a few months he had added almost 1/2 inch to his length and was much bigger across.

Good luck, hope Carl is his old self (or better) soon!!!!!

Jeff

 

[Carlie]

Betta bites is good. Our Bruce loved it, but then he ate anything. lol And they should not be too big for an adult. They have a pretty big mouth.

How warm has Carl's tank gotten up to? It sounds like he is still below temp. If not then, watch him for a few days. If he is still listless and not eating at 77F, then you may have a sick betta.

Eating food and spitting it out is not uncommon. They will take in more than they seem able to swallow at once. So like a guy, eh?? But usually they try again. Is he keeping some food in? They really don't need much. The directions said to feed 4 pieces a day, or something like that. Bruce ate more. lol

Of course he was a big boy. Bruce started in a 2 1/2 gal, then after an upgrade, he had a whole 10 gallons to swim in. After a few months he had added almost 1/2 inch to his length and was much bigger across.

Good luck, hope Carl is his old self (or better) soon!!!!!

Jeff

Carl's been in his new home for three days now! He does seem to be more active, although he's still sleeping alot (he found a cozy spot on top of a branch of his new bonzai tree, he lays on it like a little couch). He's been eating much better (about 5-8 nuggets a day instead of a couple nuggets every couple days) and even seems to be spitting out fewer. If he does spit one out he's willing to try for another one instead of giving up. He's been exploring the top portion of the tank, especially the filter, with great interest. He's just beginning to explore the lower portion amongst the plants and cave today.

I bumped up the heater a bit before I put him in, so it's at 77/78 F throughout the day, and 76 overnight. Is that a good temp? It's over 10 degrees warmer than where he was before.

Hopefully, he'll continue to improve! He already seems happier, and didn't even seem stressed or confused about being in a new tank. I offered him a single Betta Bite, just to see if he was hungry, the day I transferred him. He ate it so zealously that I gave him another... and another... he ate like 8 of them! (He prefers that I feed him one nugget at a time. ) This after refusing to eat for days on end, and only eating a few here and there in his old bowl. Yay!

Thanks everybody for your advice and encouragement!

 

[An t-iasg]

Sounds like you're doing great with Carl! I have bettas in 5 and 10 gallon tanks. I keep my temperature at 80 degrees. Although you can't keep temperatures from never fluctuating, 76 overnight is a bit chilly. Bump the temperature up to 80 degrees during the day and then see where it drops at night. You could measure first thing in the morning - you don't have to stay up at night to read the temperature!

Be careful not to overfeed. Bettas' stomachs are about the size of their eye. My bettas eat 5 pellets a day. I remember the HBH Betta Bites are very small - feed maybe 6-7 a day. Bettas love freeze-dried bloodworms too. I always soak my pellet food and bloodworms in a little bit of tankwater for a few minutes. Food that is already hydrated won't absorb moisture in the fish's stomach, which could cause bloat. Just watch that the very small nuggets don't get too mushy. Spitting out sometimes is normal too. Keep trying with the bloodworms and then maybe feed them twice a week. A variety of food is good for them too.

 

[JeffreyL]

Glad to hear Carl is doing better. Yeah, I always got a chuckle when they seem to just drape themselves over something and 'nap'. Freaked my G/F out a few times, thought he was dead. lol

Has he picked up the begging trick yet? They all seem to figure it out.

Again, Good Luck with your new buddy. lol

Jeff

 

[Carlie]

Sounds like you're doing great with Carl! I have bettas in 5 and 10 gallon tanks. I keep my temperature at 80 degrees. Although you can't keep temperatures from never fluctuating, 76 overnight is a bit chilly. Bump the temperature up to 80 degrees during the day and then see where it drops at night. You could measure first thing in the morning - you don't have to stay up at night to read the temperature!

Be careful not to overfeed. Bettas' stomachs are about the size of their eye. My bettas eat 5 pellets a day. I remember the HBH Betta Bites are very small - feed maybe 6-7 a day. Bettas love freeze-dried bloodworms too. I always soak my pellet food and bloodworms in a little bit of tankwater for a few minutes. Food that is already hydrated won't absorb moisture in the fish's stomach, which could cause bloat. Just watch that the very small nuggets don't get too mushy. Spitting out sometimes is normal too. Keep trying with the bloodworms and then maybe feed them twice a week. A variety of food is good for them too.

That's a good idea to soak them a bit... Maybe now that he's feeling spunkier he'll be more willing to try new foods, too!

Glad to hear Carl is doing better. Yeah, I always got a chuckle when they seem to just drape themselves over something and 'nap'. Freaked my G/F out a few times, thought he was dead. lol

Has he picked up the begging trick yet? They all seem to figure it out.

Again, Good Luck with your new buddy. lol

Jeff

Not begging yet, but is back to being personable when he wants attention.

He's getting more and more happy and active every day! He's darting around exploring his entire tank now, and is even working on a bubble nest.

 

[An t-iasg]

Building a bubble nest is an excellent sign that he's happy! I think it means that his food, space, and warmth needs are being met and he can follow his instincts to build a nest. My bettas build small ones - the filter, even though it's not strong, sometimes disrupts the bubbles.

 

[Carlie]

Well, after almost two weeks of steady progress from a sickly fish to a happy one, Carl died suddenly.

He was doing just fine last night... great appetite, swimming, begging for attention, exploring, bubblenesting...

I'm not sure if it was because, like some people have said, the tank was not cycled for 4-8 weeks, or if it was something else... I think he was about 3 years old, so maybe he was just old?

I tested the water and it seems ok. The alkalinity is a little lower than the recommended range, but everything else is perfect. Could that have killed him? It tested exactly the same as the bowl water in which he had been surviving, and his initial tank water (before any water change) in which he had been thriving...

I do think he would have died had he been left in his cold bowl, because he had been in very bad shape. I still feel really bad that it may have been more directly my fault...

 

[An t-iasg]

Carlie, I'm so sorry to hear this

What do you mean by the alkalinity was low? The KH? The KH value may normally drop during the week but is then replenished by water changes. I don't think the drop would have caused any harm to the betta unless you were very lax in water changes, which I would say you weren't.

I don't think you should blame yourself in any way. You gave him a great life - he had 2-3 great weeks with you. You gave him a warm home, good food, and love! I'm sure he was a very happy betta.

If he was 3 years old, that's a ripe old age for a betta. He may already have been between 6 months to a year old when your roommate got him. I'd say you did good! I'm sorry for your loss and I hope you'll adopt another betta when you're ready.

 

[Carlie]

Carlie, I'm so sorry to hear this

What do you mean by the alkalinity was low? The KH? The KH value may normally drop during the week but is then replenished by water changes. I don't think the drop would have caused any harm to the betta unless you were very lax in water changes, which I would say you weren't.

I don't think you should blame yourself in any way. You gave him a great life - he had 2-3 great weeks with you. You gave him a warm home, good food, and love! I'm sure he was a very happy betta.

If he was 3 years old, that's a ripe old age for a betta. He may already have been between 6 months to a year old when your roommate got him. I'd say you did good! I'm sorry for your loss and I hope you'll adopt another betta when you're ready.

Thanks! I don't feel so guilty now...

Yes, I meant the KH... That's weird that it was low since the last water change (about 20%) I did was only two days ago. Maybe the city water is just that way?

I'm considering getting another fish... I might as well now that I have a brand new set-up! Since I'm not sure why he died, should I clean it in any way? I know I can't use soap or detergents of any kind, but I would feel weird not doing something... And since I don't have a fish waiting for a new house I can take the time to cycle it properly.

I was thinking about a tiny school of glofish, perhaps... or another betta. Any reccomendations for a beginner with a 5 gallon tank? I know I'm pretty limited by the size.

 

[An t-iasg]

I have had a lot of 5 gallon tanks. When one of my bettas dies, I let the tank sit fallow for a month. That gives me time to get over the betta's death and also kills any disease-causing organisms. Without a fish host they can't survive. I don't tear my tanks down because they are planted. I let them sit fishless, but I still do water changes.

I have only had bettas in 5 gallon tanks so I can't really tell you how the glofish would do.

You're right that you can't use soap or detergents of any kind. I would still recommend letting the tank sit fishless for at least two weeks. You could cycle during the fishless time with pure ammonia. When I had a betta in a QT tank, I would put one drop of ammonia in his home tank every other day to keep the bacteria alive. Your bacteria will probably be dead in a day or two, so you'd have to re-cycle. If you put a small school of fish in, I would recommend fishless cycling. If you put a betta in, you would definitely see the ammonia rise but I have never seen the ammonia my new betta tanks rise more than .25. You could easily do daily water changes on this size tank. You could also get some low-light plants like java ferns or java moss to absorb the ammonia in the new tank. When I had only java moss in my betta tank, I never even saw any nitrates.

 

[Zagz]

So sorry for your loss. Antiasg is right, 3 years is a ripe old age for a betta. You no doubt gave him the happiest weeks of his life with your care and attention.

 

[JeffreyL]

Carlie, sorry to hear about Carl. It is always tough, especially when they are personable and have a name.

Great advice concerning the 5 gallon tank!! I would like to add that goldfish might not be a good idea. They normally get larger than your tank. Literally.

A betta, would of course do well in the 5. After a time you can always 'window shop', see if one calls to you. It likely will.

Or you could try some hardy, low light plants, as suggested, and do a shrimp and snail tank. Pretty easy to maintain and more entertaining than you might think. Or there are a number of hardy, small fish that will do well in a small group.


Just remember, an empth tank is a terrible waste.

Finally, you did good with Carl!!!!!! You rescued him and gave him a good home. And now, after taking care of Carl, you may be starting a new and wonderfull hobby/passion/obsession.

Have fun and Take Care!!!!!

Jeff

P.S. By the time you find out what MTS really means ........ it is too late.

 

[Carlie]

I have had a lot of 5 gallon tanks. When one of my bettas dies, I let the tank sit fallow for a month. That gives me time to get over the betta's death and also kills any disease-causing organisms. Without a fish host they can't survive. I don't tear my tanks down because they are planted. I let them sit fishless, but I still do water changes.

I have only had bettas in 5 gallon tanks so I can't really tell you how the glofish would do.

You're right that you can't use soap or detergents of any kind. I would still recommend letting the tank sit fishless for at least two weeks. You could cycle during the fishless time with pure ammonia. When I had a betta in a QT tank, I would put one drop of ammonia in his home tank every other day to keep the bacteria alive. Your bacteria will probably be dead in a day or two, so you'd have to re-cycle. If you put a small school of fish in, I would recommend fishless cycling. If you put a betta in, you would definitely see the ammonia rise but I have never seen the ammonia my new betta tanks rise more than .25. You could easily do daily water changes on this size tank. You could also get some low-light plants like java ferns or java moss to absorb the ammonia in the new tank. When I had only java moss in my betta tank, I never even saw any nitrates.

Oh, ok. Wow, I thought I'd have to clean everything somehow. Thanks!

Should I do a water change or anything? Or just let it sit and cycle with Carl's water and everything in there? I took about half out already so I could get him out easier... and I already threw away the filter. Whoops... I had figured I'd be starting completely over since I didn't know why he died.

So sorry for your loss. Antiasg is right, 3 years is a ripe old age for a betta. You no doubt gave him the happiest weeks of his life with your care and attention.

Thanks I wish the poor guy could have enjoyed it longer.

Carlie, sorry to hear about Carl. It is always tough, especially when they are personable and have a name.

Great advice concerning the 5 gallon tank!! I would like to add that goldfish might not be a good idea. They normally get larger than your tank. Literally.

A betta, would of course do well in the 5. After a time you can always 'window shop', see if one calls to you. It likely will.

Or you could try some hardy, low light plants, as suggested, and do a shrimp and snail tank. Pretty easy to maintain and more entertaining than you might think. Or there are a number of hardy, small fish that will do well in a small group.


Just remember, an empth tank is a terrible waste.

Finally, you did good with Carl!!!!!! You rescued him and gave him a good home. And now, after taking care of Carl, you may be starting a new and wonderfull hobby/passion/obsession.

Have fun and Take Care!!!!!

Jeff

P.S. By the time you find out what MTS really means ........ it is too late.

Thanks!

I was wondering about a goldfish... There was a really cute red and white one in the feeder tank my last pet store visit, but I've heard that they get big and are really messy/dirty. Guess that's not the best idea!

I might look into shrimp... that sounds interesting!

 

[JeffreyL]

Yeah, my G/F & I keep looking at the comets in the feeder tank. IF we get a 150 gallon stock tank set up on the deck for plants, why, we will need a few hardy fish for mosquito control.

We have only kept Cherry Red shrimp, Currently a 10 gal breeding tank and a slowly growing population in the G/F's 20 gal "itty bitty fish" tank. While they are not as large as some other species, they are very cool to watch. You just need to be closer to the tank.