Unknown Ammonia Source

[Fresh2o]

I am trying to figure out why am I seeing ammonia spikes in a new fishless tank.



About 2 weeks ago I set up a 20 g long with the intent of keeping low light plants and shrimp in it.
I am using about 30# EcoComplete, Finnex 100w heater, AquaClear 50, and Aqualight dual T5 NO. I transferred the sponge and extra ceramic rings from a filter in an established tank. Most of the plants are from an established tank plus some new ones. Root tabs, flourish comprehensive and excel added for the plants.

After the initial cloudiness from the substrate, things cleared up for about a week and a half. I am using polyfill in the AC. Did not test the water or do any water changes.

This past weekend the water looked as if someone poured a cup of milk in it and i figured it was a bacterial bloom. I assumed that there would be some ammonia present when the bloom peaks and crashes. It cleared up in about two days so I tested the water and got Ammonia 8+, Nitirites 0, Nitrates 5. Did a 90% water change and tested the next morning: Ammonia 1.0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 5. Then I tested it 24 hours later and I see Ammonia 8+, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 0. Huh?

Nitrates going to zero is probably due to the plants; zero nitrites means the cycling has stalled or is non-existent; but the ammonia has me stumped. I am not intentionally adding ammonia to it. I tested the water and it was zero for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates.

Where can the ammonia be coming from? I have a moss ball from the established tank...maybe that is the source? But while it was in the other tank the parameters were stable. Also, under the hill on the left side is half a red brick. I was concerned about anaerobic activity since the substrate might be 6" deep there so I put a half brick there. Brick was in the back yard for years and was not used with cement or mortar. In hindsight, due to the porous nature who knows what it has absorbed while it was outside. pH is 7.4. I will be taking it out tonight and doing another big water change and then retesting 24 hours later.
Any thoughts on this?

 

[Mrs.h2012]

I am trying to figure out why am I seeing ammonia spikes in a new fishless tank.

About 2 weeks ago I set up a 20 g long with the intent of keeping low light plants and shrimp in it.
I am using about 30# EcoComplete, Finnex 100w heater, AquaClear 50, and Aqualight dual T5 NO. I transferred the sponge and extra ceramic rings from a filter in an established tank. Most of the plants are from an established tank plus some new ones. Root tabs, flourish comprehensive and excel added for the plants.

After the initial cloudiness from the substrate, things cleared up for about a week and a half. I am using polyfill in the AC. Did not test the water or do any water changes.

This past weekend the water looked as if someone poured a cup of milk in it and i figured it was a bacterial bloom. I assumed that there would be some ammonia present when the bloom peaks and crashes. It cleared up in about two days so I tested the water and got Ammonia 8+, Nitirites 0, Nitrates 5. Did a 90% water change and tested the next morning: Ammonia 1.0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 5. Then I tested it 24 hours later and I see Ammonia 8+, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 0. Huh?

Nitrates going to zero is probably due to the plants; zero nitrites means the cycling has stalled or is non-existent; but the ammonia has me stumped. I am not intentionally adding ammonia to it. I tested the water and it was zero for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates.

Where can the ammonia be coming from? I have a moss ball from the established tank...maybe that is the source? But while it was in the other tank the parameters were stable. Also, under the hill on the left side is half a red brick. I was concerned about anaerobic activity since the substrate might be 6" deep there so I put a half brick there. Brick was in the back yard for years and was not used with cement or mortar. In hindsight, due to the porous nature who knows what it has absorbed while it was outside. pH is 7.4. I will be taking it out tonight and doing another big water change and then retesting 24 hours later.
Any thoughts on this?

Just curious, why would you put a brick in the aquarium? Excuse my ignorance but I just don't see the point in putting a brick in there. That sounds like that could be the source of the ammonia since there's no telling what it has absorbed over the years.

 

[Scott28]

I've never heard of putting a red brick in an aquarium, seems a recipe for changing conditions and disaster IMO.

Also what water testing kit are you using?? Couldn't see this information.

Just for pure interest, I'd put the brick in a bucket of water and test daily to see if this was the cause.. (This is only because I like investigating)

 

[Fresh2o]

I am using the API FW Master Test kit.

Well, before I pull out the brick (and test it in a separate container) I am going to change out the polyfill, rinse the filter media, do a big water change and see if there is a change in the ammonia level over a 24 hour period.
I want to rule out the polyfill as a culprit. The polyfill is pretty brown now and I imagine it is full of the gunk from the bacterial bloom (at its worst, the water resembled skim milk and the plants, tank walls and gravel were also covered with a whitish slime). That's a lot of cellular waste and slime and whatever that will eventually breakdown to proteins and then to nitrogen based compounds.
You might be right about the brick but I want to rule out the stuff in the filter first.

 

[Scott28]

It could be either causing it, I had high Ammonia and NitrAte level in my tank for first 4 weeks and the water was as clear as could be.. So perhaps it's both these things contributing, like you're intending on doing I'd only make one adjustment at a time. Update when you've done this change

 

[bshenanagins]

I'm not understanding the brick situation either lol why did you put it in there in the first place?

 

[armymp327]

are any of your plants leaves falling off and dying?? decaying leaves will put off ammonia as does everything else that dies.

 

[Fresh2o]

I should have put "Fishless" in the thread title. I would not think of subjecting any animals to these conditions.

Plants are doing fine. Battling some algae and spot treating with Excel. Otherwise the are growing.

Since this is fishless, I would rather take my time to determine the root cause rather than try a shotgun approach. If it was not fishless, then drastic measures would have been taken to improve the condition.

Oh, about the brick. It is not in there for decoration. Rather, for displacement. The hill in the corner is over 6" deep and I was worried about anaerobic pockets developing. If I was assured that the plant roots would go that deep then it would not be a concern. I could have simply used a rock for this purpose. The brick made sense because of the shape (flat sides - corner of tank).

I have plenty of EcoComplete available to rebuild the hill if necessary.

 

[Fresh2o]

Update: brick came out. So did the moss ball, polyfill, and prefilter sponge on the HOB intake.
I have each soaking in recently changed tank water (must have stirred up stuff because the ammonia is 1.0) and I will test them along with the tank after 6-7 hours.

 

[bshenanagins]

Update: brick came out. So did the moss ball, polyfill, and prefilter sponge on the HOB intake.
I have each soaking in recently changed tank water (must have stirred up stuff because the ammonia is 1.0) and I will test them along with the tank after 6-7 hours.

I think prefilter in a planted tank is a mistake only because your going to get loose plant leaves etc stuck on the intake and it can only clog the prefilter so that could be contributing to the inability of your filter to control ammonia because the flow is not nearly what it should be to promote bacterial growth.

 

[Fresh2o]

The prefilter is for the shrimp (whenever things stabilize). I will just have to keep up maintenance on it. I should be able to get away with frequent cleaning with hot tap water to remove the debris. Not interested in keeping BB in the prefilter (that's what the sponge/ceramic are for).

 

[Fresh2o]

Update: I placed the brick, floss, and moss ball in separate containers with some tank water. Had just done a 90% WC and the ammonia was 0 ppm. Let it sit over night. Results: (ammonia in ppm):
Brick 1
Moss Ball 2
Tank water 4
Floss 8+

What this tells me that the brick (it's out of the tank now) was not the ammonia source though it could be the source for salts and other chemicals. The moss ball was not contributing to the ammonia either. The floss had trapped a good deal of slime and live/dead bacteria. The level in the tank tells me that the ammonia is still present and rising.
One concern is the residual effects of the bacterial bloom; whitish smeary stuff on the gravel, plant leaves, and tank walls. And there is this surface film that has been most annoying. I removed most of it by placing a sheet of paper towel on the surface and quickly removing it. I'm thinking something is still growing but not in full peak like the past weekend. If that is the case, the bacteria must be consuming something...but what?
I did a 99% WC, tested it for ammonia (0.25) and will keep an eye on it. Yes, tap is zero ppm. We'll see tonight.

 

[bshenanagins]

The prefilter is for the shrimp (whenever things stabilize). I will just have to keep up maintenance on it. I should be able to get away with frequent cleaning with hot tap water to remove the debris. Not interested in keeping BB in the prefilter (that's what the sponge/ceramic are for).

Oh I see, well have you looked into purigen? Might help your situation

 

[Fresh2o]

Oh I see, well have you looked into purigen? Might help your situation

Yes, I have been thinking about getting that before this all started (for use on my other tank). However, it bugs me that the source is not so clearly defined.

 

[aqua_chem]

What is this floss you're describing? Could it have been cotton based, as opposed to polyester?


Also, thumbs up for scientific method.

 

[Fresh2o]

What is this floss you're describing? Could it have been cotton based, as opposed to polyester?

Also, thumbs up for scientific method.

That did come to mind so I checked the package: 100% polyester.

Thanks! I debug programs during the day (and test water at night) and the same approach is applicable for the determination of root cause.

I will continue to replace the floss and monitor the levels. I wish I knew what type of bacteria was blooming and more importantly what it was feeding on to explode like that. I still think the ammonia is from the bacteria or bacteria by products. I wonder if bacteria present in the water being tested will contribute to the ammonia value? I wish I had a micron filter to test that hypothesis.

 

[Fresh2o]

This is ridiculous...after a 90% WC the ammonia goes from 0.25 to 8+ in 15 hours. No brick, new floss.

My wife thinks its the floss. 100% polyester. I will place unused floss in tap water and test that and tap water (as a control) for ammonia. Expecting zeros.

I am thinking of a restart with this. The plants will get a 3% hydrogen peroxide bath for algae and bacteria and sit in a spare 6.6 g tank. The driftwood will be reboiled (I have more flame moss for it...besides the green slimy algae has blanketed most of it). Eco-complete will go in my water changing bucket and will get a dose of hydrogen peroxide and a thorough washing in HOT tap water. The tank will get a wipe down with either peroxide or vinegar and a good rinsing. Ditto with the filter. I have more ceramic rings in another tank for seeding.

This was supposed to be a simple setup for a planted shrimp tank. But something is not right. The substrate should be black. Same with the cord for the submersible heater. The fine white powdery stuff on the plants and pretty much everything else has got to go!

 

[FeldmansFish]

I may be wrong, but I remember reading somewhere that Eco complete leeches ammonia for a week or two. I think it was in the reviews of it on petsmart or drfoster&smith.com.

 

[aqua_chem]

EC will not leach ammonia. You might have it confused with aqua soil.

 

[Fresh2o]

EC will not leach ammonia. You might have it confused with aqua soil.

Thanks for confirming this. I read about accounts of ammonia spikes with the use of Eco-complete but can see no reason based on the contents why this would occur.

It was the first nice day in a very long time so I mowed the lawn and did some sorely needed maintenance in the garden. Tank (aka ammonia stew) had to take a back seat today