Using activated carbon

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Argenteus

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Apr 18, 2004
Messages
10
Location
Calgary, Canada
I have been using carbon for a while, but have been thinking of getting rid of it in my aquaclear 300 and using 2 sponges instead. I know their benefits, like getting rid of impurities and organic compounds and making the water look clear. But I also read that they don't last that long. Also, some people think they're not necessary. What are your thoughts or opinions on carbon? Is 10% weekly water changes good enough?
I have 4, 3-inch silver dollars in a 45 gallon and my goal is to raise them into big, healthy 6-inchers.
Does having no carbon affect their growth?
 
carbon won't affect the growth of your fish. many people don't use carbon at all. it is mostly just beneficial to the smell and clarity of the water. you can always get rid of your filter and just buy some carbon and a little baggy and put that in, you can use carbon without the filter. i would say try it and if there is a noticeable difference in water quality get some carbon.
 
Carbon is not absolutley necessary no, but IMO, it should be present. It does absorb the organic compounds and all that cloud up water and make it smell. But, what is your reason for getting rid of the carbon?

All those impurites attach to the carbon via chemical bonds(If I'm thinking correctly, it's kinda late), and in essence, once so many impurities become attached, the carbon becomes less effective, because there is less open space for the impurities to bond to, but it still works. You can try without it if you'd like, it wouldn't harm anything, but I just think that carbon is something that every tank should have. Some will disagree, but that's just my opinion. HTH.
 
I did not use carbon when my tank was set up for an Amazon black water biotope, because I wanted the tea color water. On my current setup, however, I use carbon on both of my tanks. My filstar XP1 has a pad specially made for it; I get them cheaper online. My smaller tank just uses loose carbon, and that's cheap as well. I replace the carbon every three months.
 
Trouble with carbon is that it can release the same crap it captured at an unexpeected moment.....
I still use it on newer tanks for the first month. But then I use different cartridges if any.
 
I agree with Christmasfish on this one. Plus, changing carbon every months is way too long to wait. IMO carbon is not needed (unless removing meds).

If you want to achieve maximum growth on your fish lose the carbon, change 25% of the water every other day, and feed heavily. :wink:
 
If you want to achieve maximum growth on your fish lose the carbon, change 25% of the water every other day, and feed heavily
How does this affect their lifespan? I don't know about other fish. but that would kill mine. I use coral to raise my ph and changing water that often would lower it too much and have some very undesirable results. My malawis can't be trusted to police their own eating habits either; they'd blow up like balloons. The dreaded Malawi Bloat.

I only use carbon when I'm pulling something out of the water. I have a fluval 304 canister filter so the carbon that's in there right now has been in there for quite some time.

I don't believe that carbon will explode after it "fills" up. It just doesn't make sense to me. It would seem that something would have to free it from it's bonds to do so.

But I've heard this argument before. From the research I've done the only information that I have seen that somewhat agrees with this is that the organic compounds adsorbed by it are still considered active. That any waste, although not suspended in the water, is still decomposing and thus affecting the overall water quality.

I sent some some emails out to a few activated carbon manufacturers to see what they had to say about it. Keep in mind I didn't send them to activated carbon for aquarium manufacturers; I'd be afraid they would try to put a spin on things to try to sell me something that I may not need. Hopefully they get back to me soon...
 
deli_conker said:
I don't believe that carbon will explode after it "fills" up. It just doesn't make sense to me. It would seem that something would have to free it from it's bonds to do so.

But I've heard this argument before. From the research I've done the only information that I have seen that somewhat agrees with this is that the organic compounds adsorbed by it are still considered active. That any waste, although not suspended in the water, is still decomposing and thus affecting the overall water quality.

...

I too have spent some time researching carbon. Here are a few links that explain it in fact based terms.
http://www.marineland.com/articles/16ActivatedCarb.asp
http://www.marineland.com/articles/17RevisActCarb.asp

To quote for one of the articles
"DE-ADSORPTION

De-adsorption is another phenomenon that is over-stated in the rumor mills about activated carbon. Again, it is an incomplete statement that is commonly used to described the process. It goes, in one fashion or another, as: don't use carbon because once its adsorption sites are full it will release, or de-adsorb, all the stuff it has adsorbed releasing a large amount of pollutants back into the aquarium. The implication in this sentence that activated carbon works something like a capacitor such that once at its maximum adsorption capacity, it instantaneously discharges all the bad things it has adsorbed is wrong. Carbon does de-adsorb, in fact, that ability is exploited for recycling precious metals. However, in a controlled industrial process, the quick release of the target substance is accomplished by switching the pH of the water. The basic process is to capture the target substance at one pH extreme (very acidic or basic) and then reclaim the substance by switching to the other pH extreme. As stated earlier in this article, these pH values are outside the normal range of aquaria. De-adsorption is not a process to be worried about."

Hopes this helps ...
 
Thanks for the links tmurphy :) They are interesting. I stopped using carbon over a year ago and perhaps it's coincedence, but my discus seem to grow faster without the carbon. I've noticed nothing adverse since discontinuing the carbon in any of my tanks (discus or otherwise). JME.

Brian
 
Okay...I didn't want to get complicated, but one of my military specialties is Water P. P is for Purification. And just the common know is that used carbon can cause small release of the very contaminants it captured. And it doesn't take these" beyond measurement swings of temp and ph" to do it either! those factors were barely even mentioned as such in class. There was more mention on the amount of organic compounds (like a aged tank has...hmm?) and particulates that cause the carbon to solidify. The re-release in ppm is no prob for large animals with a effecient filtration system such as ourselves..... but we are talking it's application for fish.
And remember; if the army becomes cautious of something, it has to have really continually failed. After all, they are always LAST to stop using a health hazardous but useful product. :roll: :? remeber when PCP was the chemical of choice to treat pallets with for wood preservation? :roll: 8O

And Murph? Quoting a company with vested interested in selling carbon products to the consumer is no way to get my vote on having done your research thoroughly.

here..example of a problem to humans:


Granular Activated Carbon
Material Safety Data Sheets


8x30 BC Liquid Phase Carbon MSDS

12x40 BC Vapor Phase Carbon MSDS


CAUTION!!! Wet activated carbon removes oxygen from air causing a severe hazard to workers inside carbon vessels and enclosed or confined spaces. Before entering such an area, sampling and work procedures for low oxygen levels should be taken to ensure ample oxygen availability, observing all local, state, and federal regulations.
(so don't just throw it in a tank!)

Here is a link or two
http://www.cpeo.org/techtree/ttdescript/liqphs.htm

www.frtr.gov/matrix2/section4/

http://www.arcesystems.com/products/carbon/theory.htm


I'll dig my old workbooks out and scan the easy to understand (remember the average test score of an army applicant) caveats and instructions for the equipment use.. And I will prolly post a an article with it.
I didn't realize how much trust was placed in carbon until the past thre four posts about it lately.


My main point is: don't place too much trust in mechanical means.. the best water standard is fresh water! Just like nature provides. Even the dankest swamp gets rain! If you have special needs fish (radical pH or Salt)..age a bucket of water ahead of time. My fish in my dutch tanks are my healthiest and fastest growing. Why is that? Water changes. And these are pH and acid sensetive fish like chocolate & licorice gourami.

There is a good reason most large species public Aquariums are always near a water source like a River or the Sea (look at the location of every aquarim you can google..and marineland/sea world parks...see a trend?).
if mechanical means were that effecient there would be a marineland Iowa or Dakota. :wink:

You should get some interesting replies Conker, but remeber that the PPM that alarge mammal can process of a dangerous molecule is not what poor fish can handle.... 'safe" and "fine " are relative terms.
 
http://www.sutcliffespeakman.com/prodfrmr.htm

Subsequently the solvent is displaced from the carbon surface by a reversal of this process called desorption. This enables the solvent to be recovered for re-use, resale or disposal.




Adsorption
Solvent (VOC) laden air from the process is first conditioned and then moved through a bed of activated carbon which is installed in a vessel known as an adsorber. The solvent is adsorbed onto the carbon surface leaving clean air to pass to atmosphere.



Desorption
Once the carbon is saturated and the solvent has been detected in the exhaust stream. The carbon bed is regenerated. In the majority of applications solvent is desorbed from the carbon by live steam. The steam/solvent mixture is then condensed and cooled prior to being separated from the distillate for re-use.

BTW: google DESORPTION not de-absorption
also google: water purification, contaminant removal from drinking water and activated carbon data sheets.
And always be sure to get data in reference to potable water..not just carbon removal of ions and molecules. Becuase if we can't drink it , it is most likely very bad for fish!
 
I don't think of it as a debate menagerie, rather a topic of discussion. I'm with you because "not" using carbon has shown no ill effects in my tanks. I won't use any chemical if I don't have to.

And, I think Christmasfish is right. Any article has a persuasion, a bent, a leaning to bring the reader to their frame of of mind!!!!
 
Heheh! It isn't a debate unless someone tries to say any of this is written in stone by the hand of a diety! :twisted:
By your post I thought you felt something but didn't feel like lecturing..yet

You are a lot farther in Bio than I got...heh. I am sure you have some good poop about carbon in general.^_^

However..I just think that a lot of this stuff is being touted as the end of proper maintainance (that yukky stuff..vacuuming, ,water changes..etc) so am looking at it quite jaundiced and practically attacking any one sided views.

Personally I use it in new tanks for a couple weeks and that is about it. And in QT tanks occasionally. That means never at this point since i have older tanks with emergency media on hand and my only QT is a dif prob altogether than medicine soup.
 
After reading all that, I've decided not to use carbon. I'll see how that works for awhile. After all, I can always add carbon again if I need to. Anyways, I've learned that water changes are the way to go.
 
Christmasfish said:
And Murph? Quoting a company with vested interested in selling carbon products to the consumer is no way to get my vote on having done your research thoroughly.

here..example of a problem to humans:

Granular Activated Carbon
Material Safety Data Sheets

8x30 BC Liquid Phase Carbon MSDS

12x40 BC Vapor Phase Carbon MSDS


CAUTION!!! Wet activated carbon removes oxygen from air causing a severe hazard to workers inside carbon vessels and enclosed or confined spaces. Before entering such an area, sampling and work procedures for low oxygen levels should be taken to ensure ample oxygen availability, observing all local, state, and federal regulations.
(so don't just throw it in a tank!)

Here is a link or two
http://www.cpeo.org/techtree/ttdescript/liqphs.htm

www.frtr.gov/matrix2/section4/

http://www.arcesystems.com/products/carbon/theory.htm


I'll dig my old workbooks out and scan the easy to understand (remember the average test score of an army applicant) caveats and instructions for the equipment use.. And I will prolly post a an article with it.
I didn't realize how much trust was placed in carbon until the past thre four posts about it lately.


My main point is: don't place too much trust in mechanical means.. the best water standard is fresh water! Just like nature provides. Even the dankest swamp gets rain! If you have special needs fish (radical pH or Salt)..age a bucket of water ahead of time. My fish in my dutch tanks are my healthiest and fastest growing. Why is that? Water changes.
.

Wow. I just spent hours pouring over your links and their links. Good thing I didn't have anything to do today :lol:

To address your points.
I wasn't quoting a company, I was quoting a PhD who is the Chief Science Officer of the Aquaria Group. I know I don't have a PhD in Ecology or Evolution or Marine Biology so I used it as I have found that finding information on the subject quite difficult as much of it is often not based on anything but what someone else posted on a form somewhere. I've found his area on the website is full of insight sans any sales promotion.

I don't want to mix apples and oranges here. The only subject I was addressing was the use of activated carbon in an aquarium and I will limit my reply to that subject. None of the links provided addresses using activated carbon in an aquarium. There dealt with anything from industrial applications to water purification to sludge processing to processing plutonium. They did not persuade me not to use it. I do the required maintainance, including water changes. Adding some ac to the filter takes the smell out of my water and presents it crystal clear.
Your point is well taken, mechanical means of treating water it is not a substitute for water changes. I wish I had more time to spend on this post but I now have some other things to do now :cry: but I do look forward to continuing our discussion. Thanks..
 
Woah...I thought I was over chemistry for the summer :lol:. Basically, the "breakthrough" that occurs with the saturation of organic solids, and the "deabsorption" that follows, is only discussed in extreme environments (e.g. water purification or distilling alchohol). Consider this: the surface area per gram of a.c. can range from 500 to 1400 square meters, and values as high as 2500 m2/g have been reported (this is from my Chemistry book :wink:). However, I do agree that faith should not be placed solely on the chemical filtration of activated carbon (a.c. is considered a chemical filtration, due to the chemical change that occurs, not a physical change). In my tanks, the water is first filtered with a sponge filter (in my 30gal, 3 different size sponges filter the water before is passes through the a.c.). I change 20% of the water with ro water once a week that has had electrolytes added back to it.

I tried having the tank without the a.c., and the water was ok, but when I added the a.c. the tank almost looks empty--with fish flying around instead of swimming :lol:. Plus the water has no smell, which despite my best efforts has smelled from time to time. Of course, this is only IME.
 
Heh! Just spreadin the topsoil there Murph. In Bio and chemistry there were references to extremes needed..but when creating potable water for thirsty soldiers you find the extremes need not be THAT extreme... and it all talks of ppm an risk factors.....so I worry that if water can become unpotable so easy..how icky can it get for fishies?
Research on pet fish does not have to be that thorough becuase they are barely considered animals... that is why the highly toxic, tetrogenic and carcenogenic methylene blue is still easily purchased and used in dubious measurements (notice it always says ornamental fish only... because oranmentals are not protected by the FDA, or any laws.) And certain chemicals/molecules/substances actually prevent the absorbtion, adsorbtion of other substances (leaving them free to wreak havoc.)
BTW...what becomes of the medicated water if it goes in septic tanks or non chalant water reclaimation methods? Does in contaminate the water table at some point? Hmmmm...that is another story.... the right wing kook in me loves conspiracy theories.... :twisted: :roll:

And I seemed to have an issue over it because lately I hear all these filters and products touted as the end of frequent water changes...and I am afraid someone is gonna believe it! 8O

I am extra crusty in tone today both because what I thought I'd find and what I did indeed find at school today... :oops: :cry: poor betta! he never had a chance!
BTW: I have one "smelly" tank..it smells like mown grass occasionally. But I am not offended by that smell other than it gets me double checking the nitrates. Is that the smell you mean?
 
Christmasfish said:
what becomes of the medicated water if it goes in septic tanks or non chalant water reclaimation methods? Does in contaminate the water table at some point? Hmmmm...that is another story.... the right wing kook in me loves conspiracy theories.... :twisted: :roll:

And I seemed to have an issue over it because lately I hear all these filters and products touted as the end of frequent water changes...and I am afraid someone is gonna believe it! 8O

I am extra crusty in tone today both because what I thought I'd find and what I did indeed find at school today... :oops: :cry: poor betta! he never had a chance!
BTW: I have one "smelly" tank..it smells like mown grass occasionally. But I am not offended by that smell other than it gets me double checking the nitrates. Is that the smell you mean?

Seems to me that anything dumped down a septic tank would find it way to the water table. I'd never be comfortable drinking well water in a area that used septic tanks .

The worse example of product that claims to extend water changes is Tetra Aqua EasyBalance which has in red highlite on the front of the bottle "ELIMINATES FREQUENT WATER CHANGES" and "Keeps water biological balanced for 6 months" You wouldn't need to change the water 'cause you wouldn't have any fish left :p

Now I've haven't been able to describe the smell of my tank until I read your mowed grass comparision. Damn thats it! That's what it smells like.

Sorry to hear about the betta.
 
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