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Old 04-07-2014, 06:13 PM   #1
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Lightbulb wanting to know about cycleing

i was just wanting some feed back on how i should cycle a new tank
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Old 04-07-2014, 06:42 PM   #2
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Tank Cycling

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Originally Posted by joemomma456 View Post
i was just wanting some feed back on how i should cycle a new tank
Hello joe...

Cycling it with hardy fish will provide a steady supply of ammonia. You use 3 to 4 small fish for every 10 gallons of water. In a couple of days, the ammonia from the fish waste starts the cycle. You have a good water testing kit handy and test the tank water daily for traces of ammonia and nitrite. When you have a positive test, remove and replace 25 percent of the water. Just test and change the water when needed. Toss in some floating plants like Hornwort. When several daily tests show no trace of the above toxins, the tank is cycled.

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Old 04-07-2014, 07:01 PM   #3
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Agree with B. The other thing you'll need is patience, do just as B says and in time your tank will cycle.
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Old 04-08-2014, 04:14 AM   #4
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I personally think that cycling fishless is less work and more humane.

You should read some of the articles in the forum's "getting started" area and decide what is best for you.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...um-154837.html
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:03 AM   #5
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Less risk with fishless cycle if you can source ammonia from somewhere.
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:38 AM   #6
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Like threnjen says. There are many different opinions about cycling so it's always best to analyse the methods and choose which is best for you.

I Personally believe fish in cycling is easier and there is no reason for the fish to come to any harm if the process is done correctly.

It's all about the right size, type and number of fish for the size of tank. Stocking slowly and feeding very sparingly.

One disagreement I have is that if you were to change the water every time you record a positive reading for ammonia you would be changing water everyday. In all of my fish in cycles ammonia has held steady throughout at 0.25ppm I say that as long as the API test kit does not read above this then the fish will be fine. Above 0.25ppm and it's time to change the water. One of the few variables has gone wrong.

What I would recommend is that you purchase a Seachem ammonia alert to compliment the API test kit. Without going in to the science yet (unless you would prefer?) this would give you a much better indication of when to change your water.
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:38 AM   #7
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I would suggest ATM colony. Its live nitrifying bacteria, this can allow you to do fish in cycle safely and quickly. Another thing I would suggest before you get started is test tap water for pH nitrates and ammonia. These can help or hurt your cycle depending on results.

If you have low pH its pretty easy to do fish in cycle without hurting the fish. Low pH makes ammonia far less harmful, pretty much hinders ammonia non toxic whatsoever with 6.6 or lower pH. The down side to this is nitrifying bacteria takes longer to establish with low pH.

I am on day 10 of my cycle with ATM colony, I have soft water. My ammonia is now 0 and my nitrites is below .25 and nitrates at around 5.

This product works!

I should also add I have been cycling with Sensitive fish and they have not only survived but have been thriving in my heavily planted 75g.

Cardinal tetras 13 of these and a breeding pair of golden rams. Which laid eggs on the second day.
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:48 AM   #8
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You could also do what's called the silent cycle, this method has always worked for me, but also requires patience. The silent cycle is used with lots of fast growing plants and stocking slowly. Plants main food is ammonia. With enough plants in the tank you'll never see any ammonia build up. I've done this with two 55 gallon tanks and never lost fish during the process. The tank is basically instantly cylced
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:03 PM   #9
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the easiest fastest way is to use borrowed media from an established aquarium

i do fishless cycling...nothing wrong with fish-in...i just prefer to build up my bb like a freight train and add my stock...less time and effort (much less time and effort)...when doing fish-in, you're contantly testing and changing water, while making multiple fish store trips (and quarantines)...
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:28 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Aldeub View Post
the easiest fastest way is to use borrowed media from an established aquarium

i do fishless cycling...nothing wrong with fish-in...i just prefer to build up my bb like a freight train and add my stock...less time and effort (much less time and effort)...when doing fish-in, you're contantly testing and changing water, while making multiple fish store trips (and quarantines)...

I can't really agree on fishless being easier. I just don't understand how it can be easier. You almost don't even have to worry about the cycle when using fish (must stress done correctly) the cycle will just finish in it's own time, toxins will remain low (I even do weekly water changes as I would on an established tank) and just use the Seachem ammonia alert as a reference.

I actually enjoy trips to the LFS and adding a new fish or batch of fish is the exciting part for me. You can also easily keep track on disease by quarantining before adding to the main display and you don't have to look at an empty tank for a month.

Then there's the risk of stalling be it by ph or kh. The dreaded high nitrite phase and constant water changes to get them readable and the huge nitrate busting change at the end to get the tank ready for the full batch. (The problems in this paragraph can be avoided but instructions for fishless cycling are not refined enough to combat these problems) knowing your source water when building a bacteria colony like a freight train is important (arguably just as important when using fish) and that may involve buying a kh and gh kit more cost etc.

Again these are all my opinions I'm not putting fish less cycling down. I'm all for helping anyone have a smoother ride with a fishless cycle if that's the way they choose to do it.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:50 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by joemomma456 View Post
i was just wanting some feed back on how i should cycle a new tank
Caliban07's method. Works every time.
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:11 PM   #12
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I can't really agree on fishless being easier. The tank does all the work...you might have add some fish food or shrimp, but that's it... I just don't understand how it can be easier. You almost don't even have to worry about the cycle when using fish no that's all you do because you have to stay on top of your parameters constantly (must stress done correctly) the cycle will just finish in it's own time, which is slower toxins will remain low because you're surpressing them by removing food for your growing bb population because to much of that "food" will kill your fish (I even do weekly water changes as I would on an established tank) and just use the Seachem ammonia alert as a reference.

I actually enjoy trips to the LFS and adding a new fish or batch of fish is the exciting part for me. my fish store is over an hour away...but do enjoy getting to go You can also easily keep track on disease by quarantining before adding to the main display and you don't have to look at an empty tank for a month. the empty tank (for 2 weeks tops) is what my wife hates...she just wants to put fish in, but i don't want the extra work and testing...

Then there's the risk of stalling be it by ph or kh. The dreaded high nitrite phase and constant water changes to get them readable and the huge nitrate busting change at the end to get the tank ready for the full batch. simple solution here...that's not "stalling" that's part of the process of your bb adapting to become best suited for that tanks environment (and it can happen when doing fish-in causing more problems) these things are sensitive so during the changing conditions of a cycling process in a tank your bb are adapting and going through population swings (i.e. stalling)...but with fishless you can leave it be and when it breaks through...just get your nitrates down and add fish (The problems in this paragraph can be avoided but instructions for fishless cycling are not refined enough to combat these problems they really are, but it's hard to tell through all the panicky "MY CYCLE STALLED WHAT DO I DO!" threads, which are then usually followed by repeated bad advice learned from the previous stalled cycle thread) knowing your source water when building a bacteria colony like a freight train is important (arguably just as important when using fish no it's not arguable, i would say more important for fish in, because with the fish in you may need to prepare for it) and that may involve buying a kh and gh kit more cost etc.

Again these are all my opinions I'm not putting fish less cycling down. I'm all for helping anyone have a smoother ride with a fishless cycle if that's the way they choose to do it.
as you said fish in cycling is good if done properly...it's just not for everyone...especially beginners imo (but sadly most beginners unwittingly start with fish in and end up with those fish dying and giving their bb a good kick start...
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:48 PM   #13
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I hear what you are saying aldeub I really do and I agree it's difficult when trying to convince a beginner (who has probably left now sorry >.<)

But for me slower doesn't necessary mean worse. If you choose the right fish in the right size tank then toxins will be very low on the API tester (0.25) and minuscule on the Seachem ammonia alert. The ammonia alert just sits in the tank and let's you know if toxic free ammonia becomes to high. During my fish in cycle this stayed in the safe zone the whole time. I changed my water twice and this was only because I felt like it. I still own all the fish I used to cycle. It also doesn't matter if you remove food. So what, the cycle takes slightly longer but it ain't gonna stop cycling until you have added your last fish anyways.

I just think it's easier. If you know what you are doing.

You should take extra care in a smaller tank though.
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Old 04-08-2014, 02:16 PM   #14
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I never said it was worse...this is all just matters of preference...you state why you like your way and i state why i like mine (in comparison to each other so it may seem like arguing, but i'm not)...i'm not arguing or putting down your method (it's a good one)...sorry if it sounds like i'm saying your wrong, your not, these are just different methods to achieve the same result...

they both work that's what matters but there's less risk with fishless, esp. for beginners...

through years of experience i prefer fishless and will never do fish-in unless for some reason i absolutely have to...

they are both easy, but you have plenty more room for error in fishless...

i've used ammonia alerts too, they're good for fish-in or if you're making changes to an established tank...

nothing wrong with removing food (you have to with fish-in) i just prefer to get the bb built up asap...
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Old 04-08-2014, 02:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldeub View Post
I never said it was worse...this is all just matters of preference...you state why you like your way and i state why i like mine (in comparison to each other so it may seem like arguing, but i'm not)...i'm not arguing or putting down your method (it's a good one)...sorry if it sounds like i'm saying your wrong, your not, these are just different methods to achieve the same result...

they both work that's what matters but there's less risk with fishless, esp. for beginners...

through years of experience i prefer fishless and will never do fish-in unless for some reason i absolutely have to...

they are both easy, but you have plenty more room for error in fishless...

i've used ammonia alerts too, they're good for fish-in or if you're making changes to an established tank...

nothing wrong with removing food (you have to with fish-in) i just prefer to get the bb built up asap...

Yes it definitely is about preference and I would agree there is more room for error which is especially important for beginners.

I just hear this a lot, that fishless cycling I'm way easier and I wanted to get some points across.

I will never fishless cycle. I have seeded media now anyway.

Myself and other members on here have been looking more closely into the fishless cycling stalls and it would appear that some actually are stalling. There are many reasons this could be though.
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Old 04-08-2014, 03:00 PM   #16
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"Myself and other members on here have been looking more closely into the fishless cycling stalls and it would appear that some actually are stalling. There are many reasons this could be though."

i'll answer this question for you...they're experiencing a "hiccup" in their bb system resulting from an equilibrium change that is caused by a change in the system that was brought about by any number of external or internal means or combinations of these (but generally as a natural result of system development, similar to what you see in a recovering ecosystem...think of an old crop field left alone for a few years...the initial bb are just the ruderal species...)...remember bb are sensitive little buggers...most of these cases will be caused by a die off of certain types of bb that were built up during the cycling process and perished due to their inability to survive in the resulting system or due to being over taken by others...while "stalling" you're simply waiting for your systems "climax" bb community to develop...so again...just part of cycling...it happens more noticably in some than others...
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Old 04-08-2014, 03:05 PM   #17
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What would you term a "hiccup"?

What factors are likely to cause these hiccups?
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Old 04-08-2014, 03:17 PM   #18
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hiccup = stall

factors....assuming no changes in external inputs, you're looking at 2 main categories in your internal system; 1) natural succession (will result in a large die off or stall if "next in line" is not ready with a larger population)... 2) populaion vs. variable carrying capacity (really can go with external factors, but internal factors could have negative effects on food and type of food supply as well)...

for external inputs...anything and everything
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Old 04-08-2014, 03:25 PM   #19
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hiccup = stall

factors....assuming no changes in external inputs, you're looking at 2 main categories in your internal system; 1) natural succession (will result in a large die off or stall if "next in line" is not ready with a larger population)... 2) populaion vs. variable carrying capacity (really can go with external factors, but internal factors could have negative effects on food and type of food supply as well)...

for external inputs...anything and everything

Maybe you could come to our thread and explain 1 and 2 in more detail?

I think it would be good to help us understand a little bit more.

There must be a solution to make every fishless cycle the same?
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Old 04-08-2014, 03:27 PM   #20
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It's the extreme cycling experiment in the aquaria off topic section
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