Water Changes

[selvan777]

EDIT: perhaps I should rephrase the question to "why are pwc needed?"

Hi,

First of all, I am no expert at all and am learning.

I'm wondering if pwc's are truly necessary if water tests continually remain acceptable and no activity raises the need like after using meds, etc.

Ever since I setup my tank I've been routinely having my water tested at Petsmart before and after pwc's every 4 to 5 days. The results always stay the same except for hardness and alkalinity but never at levels that raise concern (80 - 120). They use Jungle Lab's 6-in-1 and Ammonia.

For now I plan on raising the bar to every 2 weeks, but really, is it necessary?

Thanks

 

[Blueiz]

There are things in the water that cannot be tested for, such as fish hormones. I change the water on my heavily stocked tanks once every two weeks, and once a month on my planted tank. It sounds as though petsmart is using the test strips, of which are notoriously inaccurate, it would pay you to purchase at the minimum an ammonia, nitrite and nitrate liquid test kit. Having these kits on hand will allow you to immediately test your water if something goes wrong and the store is closed as well as give you accurate results.

 

[selvan777]

Thanks Blueiz. Yes they are using the paper strips.

 

[mfdrookie516]

if theyre using test strips, you might as well taste the water to test it. There are so many variables in testing and using a paper test kit is just not a good way at all. Invest $20 in an API Fw test kit. That will be the most useful $20 youve spent on your tank. As far as pwc's go, they are a must. Think about all the waste that the fish put out, and im sure fish pee too (though i honestly dont know lol)... Removing part of the water and putting in fresh water also removes nitrates, which are harmless to fish in certain levels, but as your bacteria removes the ammonia and converts it to nitrites, then nitrates, the nitrates have no place else to go unless theyre in a planted tank... I do a 50% pwc in all my tanks once a week. Its a bit overkill as my parameters are always in check as well, but i do it just to keep everybody happy and healthy. I guess you could compare it to changing oil. Most manufacturers recommend changing oil in your vehicle every 3000 miles or 3 months, whichever comes first. You can check your oil every day, and it can still look just as nice and clean as the day you changed it last, but after its been used for that long, things arent there that were, such as the detergents in the oil that clean the motor and the oils viscosity is lost somewhat as well. This is just my understanding of why they are important

 

[selvan777]

Well, the best I could I do was $23 from Amazon for the API fw kit, it's in the mail.

The nitrates (and ferts) are feeding my plants, including my Duckweed which really suck that stuff up and helps keep me steady at 5 (per the stick). I could completely understand the need to do pwc if the need arises like spikes in anything tested or not. I guess those that are not tested would have to depend on my observation. I still don't see the need but will continue to do 'em every other week.

Again, I'm no expert but am real curious to get to the bottom of this for my own sake and wouldn't be surprised if I get no where in the end.

 

[DragonFish71]

Another thing about water changes, for some fish that triggers the spawning cycle. The water being a tad cooler tricks their bodies into thinking it's a rain storm, which is when some fish get randy.

But as said above, the main reasons for doing water changes is to keep the water at optimal levels.

 

[selvan777]

Thanks Dragon.

The want to trigger breeding falls into the "needs that may arise" area. Meaning to say if not breeding why bother.

I think of the professional aquariums like Monterey Bay Aquarium. I think it's only saltwater but I'm sure there are many freshwater aquariums too like google pulled up "Steinhart Aquarium". Do they do pwc, I ask myself, I don't really think so but I don't know.

Hmm, maybe I'll send off an e-mail or two to them and see what they say.

To me, keeping the water at optimal levels means monitoring it closely and doing what's needed to correct but only when needed. The underwater world is just another ecosystem. In ours we don't replace the air, we maintain it, at least try our best to. If I remove the water that tests good in the levels that we are only capable of and replace it with naked water, it's doing more harm, I think. Naked because it lacks all that good stuff that's keeping everything well balanced and in check as is.

Just giving my brain some exercise ...

 

[mfdrookie516]

well think of it this way... in the lakes and oceans, you have such a huge amount of water, it dilutes all that bad stuff. Also, rain water helps replenish the nutrients in the water. There are so many factors involved. If pwc's werent necessary, we wouldnt do them. Trust me, i would LOVE to not have to replace 125 gallons every week, but i do it because its necessary.

 

[sieski]

EDIT: perhaps I should rephrase the question to "why are pwc needed?"

Hi,

First of all, I am no expert at all and am learning.

I'm wondering if pwc's are truly necessary if water tests continually remain acceptable and no activity raises the need like after using meds, etc.

Ever since I setup my tank I've been routinely having my water tested at Petsmart before and after pwc's every 4 to 5 days. The results always stay the same except for hardness and alkalinity but never at levels that raise concern (80 - 120). They use Jungle Lab's 6-in-1 and Ammonia.

For now I plan on raising the bar to every 2 weeks, but really, is it necessary?

Thanks

One answer PREVENTION IS BETTER THAN CURE. Doing a PWC when something arises is too late.

Would you put oil in your engine after it had run dry and ceased?

Every week Isn't needed. but I would say fortnightly for heavy stocked tanks or non planted and 4 weeks for planted. Thats my rota and touch wood no problems that have arised through water quality yet.

 

[selvan777]

Thanks.

Sure pollutants are watered down in larger bodies of water and I too feel offense is better than defense. But, with all due respect, surely none of us pet fish owners pollute our aquariums whether big or small and, even with pwc, there still lays an equal opportunity for the unwanted. Our offense is all we do as pet fish owners with a carefully chosen community, aquascape, nutritional feeding, fertilizers, cycled water, etc, etc, etc. Surely you don't mean to say any of it comes from pwc.

Why am I doing pwc's?

 

[sieski]

Thanks.

Sure pollutants are watered down in larger bodies of water and I too feel offense is better than defense. But, with all due respect, surely none of us pet fish owners pollute our aquariums whether big or small and, even with pwc, there still lays an equal opportunity for the unwanted. Our offense is all we do as pet fish owners with a carefully chosen community, aquascape, nutritional feeding, fertilizers, cycled water, etc, etc, etc. Surely you don't mean to say any of it comes from pwc.

Why am I doing pwc's?

No you don't polute the tank in anyway. Your fish do. Fish waste. Fish hormones, foot waste. Simple fact I bet most on here that have regular problems with their fish don't do PWC's as regularly as they should. U haven't a clue why you bother asking about PWCS it looks like you made up your mind that its a load of rubbish!

 

[Lynae]

Part water changes are TRUSTED because in the nitrogen cycle, that maintains healthy aquariums, produces nitrAte. Although its not as bad as ammonia (fish poop) and nitrItes (turn into nitrAtes), it still needs to removed, AKA, diluted. Considering we cant simply 'dilute' by adding water, because evaporation doesnt work in sync with our self-contained ecosystems, we have to remove a small amount, and add fresh water.
I think you should give your brain a rest, pwc, any amount of water, diluting the waste, not only contributes but makes up a healthy tank...

 

[yohann976]

I can see where you're coming from. Heck, I've even tried it before. Trust me, it's a bigger pain in the butt trying to keep everything in check than it is to do a PWC. I figured that plants would take care of all the nitrates and they really do help to a certain extent. But then you have to still fertilize with other things like potassium; otherwise, your plants won't fair well and they cannot take in nitrates. Also, some foods release a lot of phosphates (more than your plants need) and you have to do a PWC to reduce them. You also have TDS to consider as well.

Even if you bought every test possible, you can't test everything. Not only that, you'll find that some of your parameters are going to be out of whack in time. Some will go beyond the acceptable range and you'll need a PWC to bring them back down.

No matter how hard we attempt to replicate nature, we can't. We are making an artificial environment. What do you think this is, the Bio-Dome? lol

 

[selvan777]

Okay, I really need to highlight this.

The last thing I want to do here is ruffle anyone's feathers. You folks here on this forum have been a group of invaluable source of information to me. Please, all I want to do have an open and honest discussion on the matter. My attitude in life is that change is good. There's no hard feelings I hope.


I understand that access fish poo will cause a spike in nitrates and/or probably trigger other things. As in all living things, an access of anything will cause something to go wrong and need immediate attention. And as delicate as these little pets of ours are, it can turn deadly quick.

I would think then that an important first step would probably be to do a (heavy) pwc, among other things, to bring everything back to being well balanced again.

Then consider what was the culprit and make the necessary adjustments. Whether it be decreasing the occupants, increasing the plants, improving the filtration, enlarging the environment, etc, etc, etc.

In my mind After bringing it all back into being a well balanced ecosystem again nature should take care of itself with very little and careful human intervention.

LOL, thanks Yohann,

Is it really that difficult to replicate? I guess so since you've already put your mind in overdrive to achieve it. Well, you can't blame a guy for trying now can you...

 

[yohann976]

I had a 150 gallon paludarium with an extra 8 inch glass top to grow out terrestrial plants that grew hydroponically. There was about 75 actual gallons of water with many aquatic plants. I did monitor almost everything possible and I'll admit that you can delay PWC's. I did a 50% water change once every two months for quite awhile in a heavily planted/lightly stocked tank. Nitrates were NEVER a problem. In fact, I frequently had to add them for the plants because it kept bottoming out. Most everything would stay in balance, but certain things would start to creap up and a PWC would keep it in check.

My tank was pretty big with a lot of plants (both aquatic and hydroponic terrestrial plants). I think that the size really helped to keep everything in balance and I was able to get away with few water changes. In a smaller tank, I think that elements can get too high really fast unless they are monitored constantly.

 

[selvan777]

Wow, you were really into it big time,
hats off to you my friend.

Thanks everyone.

If I ever do get a reply from calacademy,
I'll post it.