What does 'natural' mean?

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Delapool

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Every so often I see a thread where natural buffers or meds are preferred as somehow better (or hated on sight).

I've never really understood this and hoping someone can explain what natural means and why it is preferred?
 
Take pH for example. There's tons of pH adjusting chemicals, but unless you keep dosing it's only a temporary thing. Using *natural* buffers such as crushed coral (pH up) and driftwood/peat moss (pH down) it will *naturally* adjust the pH and keep it stable using materials found in nature.


Caleb

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fhe natural meds for fish are just as hyped and crappy as the natural meds fot humans. Some have absolutely minor effdcts while many have no effect at all and people eat them up either way because they are "natural".

The funny thing is... antibiotics are natural as well.
 
I think using crushed coral as an example is conflating "natural" with "simple". Crushed coral is the best option as a buffer because it practically regulates itself, removing the need for you to dose liquids or powders constantly. We also know exactly what it's releasing into the water so we don't have to worry about it. It's got nothing to do with being natural (at least for me).

fhe natural meds for fish are just as hyped and crappy as the natural meds fot humans. Some have absolutely minor effdcts while many have no effect at all and people eat them up either way because they are "natural".

The funny thing is... antibiotics are natural as well.

*puts on lab coat and goggles* I agree with the above statement. No supporting data on these "natural" treatments!
 
I think you will find that things like coral will have little or no effect in water that has an alkaline pH. A buffer, while it may affect pH, is not the same as a pH "up" product. As an example, baking soda, will raise pH some, but has an upper limit. It is generally used as a buffer, as compared to a strong alkaline such as sodium hydroxide, which will raise the pH drastically. This is much like the way an acid will lower pH, but in reverse. It is important to understand the way a buffer works and it's purpose, which is to keep pH stable. Basically an alkaline buffer, such as baking soda will absorb any added acid, until it (the buffer) is consumed, at which point the pH will drop. This is how one keeps a swimming pool at the correct pH, and the principle is the same in aquariums.
 
So if I'm reading right then natural equals simple or well understood?

I mean I've seen pimafix or melafix or even salt as a natural remedy. The first two I'm very careful on using and the last, well I like salt but I'm not sure it is natural to FW. But I guess it is fairly simple to use?
 
So if I'm reading right then natural equals simple or well understood?

I mean I've seen pimafix or melafix or even salt as a natural remedy. The first two I'm very careful on using and the last, well I like salt but I'm not sure it is natural to FW. But I guess it is fairly simple to use?

Exactly. Heat and salt are "natural" ich treatments- even though a fish wouldn't experience either in the wild. But heat and salt are simple ingredients that we know and understand so we feel more comfortable using them- we experience both heat and salt ourselves. I dunno about pimafix and melafix, I've never heard of them as "natural".
 
Exactly. Heat and salt are "natural" ich treatments- even though a fish wouldn't experience either in the wild. But heat and salt are simple ingredients that we know and understand so we feel more comfortable using them- we experience both heat and salt ourselves. I dunno about pimafix and melafix, I've never heard of them as "natural".


It's mainly older threads going back a few years. I'd see a post which would say something like don't trust other meds but pima is natural thus using that (basically).

I don't mind use of it but never understood calling it natural.

Heat is a good one. Is it natural, man made (as we are doing it) or a bit of both? Should I just skip the coffee late at night??
 
Exactly. Heat and salt are "natural" ich treatments- even though a fish wouldn't experience either in the wild. But heat and salt are simple ingredients that we know and understand so we feel more comfortable using them- we experience both heat and salt ourselves. I dunno about pimafix and melafix, I've never heard of them as "natural".


From what I have read the Fix's do nothing for Ich.


Caleb

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It all comes back to the question- is man a part of nature? What is and isn't nature? I just try not to think too hard about it and do whatever I think is best for the fish, and not use labels like "natural" to determine that.
 
It's mainly older threads going back a few years. I'd see a post which would say something like don't trust other meds but pima is natural thus using that (basically).

I don't mind use of it but never understood calling it natural.

Heat is a good one. Is it natural, man made (as we are doing it) or a bit of both? Should I just skip the coffee late at night??

The answer is going to be as varied types of coffee that we consume by the gallon.

Tea tree oil is made from presumably mostly ingredients found in nature. Some people will call this natural. However, Terramycin is produced by bacteria found in the soil (still a very natural process) and those same exact people that will call tea tree oil natural will call terramycin unnatural even though they both are produced by nature, collected, refined, and concentrated.

On the other hand, heat can be considered by some to be natural, but is it really natural? How many of these fish will get water temps that hit 86 degrees continuously? How is it natural if it's not something that occurs in nature? Salt could be looked at the same exact way.

It's going to be answered in a spectrum based on your personal feelings of what constitutes "natural"
 
It all comes back to the question- is man a part of nature? What is and isn't nature? I just try not to think too hard about it and do whatever I think is best for the fish, and not use labels like "natural" to determine that.


I believe if I can go outside and find it, it's natural. If man has to alter it, it's not natural anymore.


Caleb

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I just went outside and found a man. What does that mean?


The human body is natural. It naturally reproduces and survives. The clothes we wear are made of natural materials but not made naturally. Therefore altered.


Caleb

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The human body is natural. It naturally reproduces and survives. The clothes we wear are made of natural materials but not made naturally. Therefore altered.


Caleb

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But if we are natural, isn't what we make natural? Beaver dams are natural, ant hills and termite mounds are natural... Look at the entire natural world; even the ground we walk on has been deeply impacted by the activities of organisms aside from us. where do we draw the synthetic line? This is why I choose not to use ambiguous terms like "natural" to determine what's safe for my fish.
 
But if we are natural, isn't what we make natural? Beaver dams are natural, ant hills and termite mounds are natural... Look at the entire natural world; even the ground we walk on has been deeply impacted by the activities of organisms aside from us. where do we draw the synthetic line? This is why I choose not to use ambiguous terms like "natural" to determine what's safe for my fish.


Look at the ground we walk on. Pavement is made of natural materials to create a human product. It's not *natural* if you can't find it in nature. IMO...


Caleb

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If you want to get down to real materials take a wooden rocking chair. The tree it came from did not "grow" a rocking chair on it. Humans altered the wood making it into a chair and therefore not something that was "naturally created" but rather man made. That's where I draw the line. If nature cannot create it through the world that we live in then it is not something natural.


Caleb

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If you want to get down to real materials take a wooden rocking chair. The tree it came from did not "grow" a rocking chair on it. Humans altered the wood making it into a chair and therefore not something that was "naturally created" but rather man made. That's where I draw the line. If nature cannot create it through the world that we live in then it is not something natural.


Caleb

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But again, what about beaver dams? Trees didn't grow into a dam either. Does that make it not natural but "beaver-made"?
 
But again, what about beaver dams? Trees didn't grow into a dam either. Does that make it not natural but "beaver-made"?


Humans are a bit more sophisticated than beavers lol it is in a beavers genetics to make dams into its home. It's a natural process that beavers do.


Caleb

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Humans are a bit more sophisticated than beavers lol it is in a beavers genetics to make dams into its home. It's a natural process that beavers do.


Caleb

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But what is the actual distinction? How is it in their genetics to make dams, but not in ours to make everything we do? It's an artificial distinction.
 
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