What is longest a cycle can take?
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NigelK8485
Aquarium Advice Addict
How are you cycling, testing, what are the parameters? I've read of some people's cycles taking over three months.
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Mebbid
Aquarium Advice Addict
It varies a lot. Have you changed your filter cartridges at all during this time?
We need more information to point a finger at something.
We need more information to point a finger at something.
Okay, didn't realize it could take that long.
I am testing daily, perhaps every other day as the numbers are not changing a lot. I have pH around 6.5, and ammonia 0, nitrites .1. Ihave to buy a nitrate test kit.
I have been doing water changes about 1 per week 1/3 or so, every time nitrites hit .25. It's been 2.5 months. Tank still seems to get cloudy from time to time. It's a 40 gallon tank with a Fluval 70 HOB.
Fish, in cycle, 1 5" goldfish.
I started with some of the filter media from the filter wheel on my old 10 gallon aq. I was following the directions in filter system, and had changed the sponge once (supposed to change monthly), and I changed the carbon once. Not at the same time, but rather after first month, sponge, after 2nd carbon. Now I am 2 weeks into 3rd month.
I can just keep up with it, and avoid changing any more of the filter components. I just didn't realize it could take more than 3 months.
I am testing daily, perhaps every other day as the numbers are not changing a lot. I have pH around 6.5, and ammonia 0, nitrites .1. Ihave to buy a nitrate test kit.
I have been doing water changes about 1 per week 1/3 or so, every time nitrites hit .25. It's been 2.5 months. Tank still seems to get cloudy from time to time. It's a 40 gallon tank with a Fluval 70 HOB.
Fish, in cycle, 1 5" goldfish.
I started with some of the filter media from the filter wheel on my old 10 gallon aq. I was following the directions in filter system, and had changed the sponge once (supposed to change monthly), and I changed the carbon once. Not at the same time, but rather after first month, sponge, after 2nd carbon. Now I am 2 weeks into 3rd month.
I can just keep up with it, and avoid changing any more of the filter components. I just didn't realize it could take more than 3 months.
NigelK8485
Aquarium Advice Addict
What testing kit are you using? A low pH slows down a cycle, ideally you'd want it 7.5 or higher to speed it up, but since you're doing fish in cycling it could be difficult to raise the pH so much without killing or hurting the fish. Do you have any way of returning the fish or giving him to someone? Right now you're only building up enough bacteria to handle that one fish's bioload, so you'll have to introduce new fish slowly and give the bacteria time to populate and accommodate the additional load. I'm a fishless cycle advocate, but putting that aside I think it'd be better to return the fish, use pure ammonia and cycle that way. You can get enough bacteria to handle 4 ppm of ammonia so when the cycle is complete you'd be able to immediately stock. Plus you could just let the tank kind of run on its own and not worry about water changes or any of that as well as raise the pH to a higher level and speed things up.
If you aren't using one already, get a liquid test kit. API Freshwater is the one most commonly referred to. Strips are very unreliable.
I used pure ammonia to cycle my 150 and it took 3 and a half weeks.
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If you aren't using one already, get a liquid test kit. API Freshwater is the one most commonly referred to. Strips are very unreliable.
I used pure ammonia to cycle my 150 and it took 3 and a half weeks.
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Nigel,
I'm using API liquid test kits. The natural pH in this area is about 6.9/7, so I would have to do some sort of pH up. I could bring it up slowly.
Are you saying one can't develop the BB for 1 fish long term, with 1 fish in the tank cycling? I wasn't planning on any additional fish.
I supposed I could find someone to take fish for a period. Was bought 12 years ago, and the only reason I'm going through this, is because we wanted to put him in a larger tank. If I had been a member here before all this, I would have left old tank running. That tank wasn't cycled, just apparently got it up and running okay just following filter instructions and such, but at that time, it was one 1" fish that grew. Now it's one 6" fish.
I've been told, this goldfish could outlive me.
Kevin
I'm using API liquid test kits. The natural pH in this area is about 6.9/7, so I would have to do some sort of pH up. I could bring it up slowly.
Are you saying one can't develop the BB for 1 fish long term, with 1 fish in the tank cycling? I wasn't planning on any additional fish.
I supposed I could find someone to take fish for a period. Was bought 12 years ago, and the only reason I'm going through this, is because we wanted to put him in a larger tank. If I had been a member here before all this, I would have left old tank running. That tank wasn't cycled, just apparently got it up and running okay just following filter instructions and such, but at that time, it was one 1" fish that grew. Now it's one 6" fish.
I've been told, this goldfish could outlive me.
Kevin
NigelK8485
Aquarium Advice Addict
I thought you were using the goldfish just to cycle the tank. If he's just going to be the only resident then you'll be fine. I was saying there are only enough bacteria produced to compensate for the amount of waste being produced, so if you were planning on adding more fish afterwards the bacteria would need time to catch up to the increased waste.
You could raise the pH naturally using crushed coral or some form of calcareous rocks like limestone or Texas holey rock, but it's not a must. I'd leave the pH the same just being aware that it will slow down the cycle.
Other than that I'd say you're doing it well, just keep doing water changes to maintain a non toxic environment and don't replace any filter media, substrate, or remove any decorations for the time being. Now it is basically just a waiting game.
Also, with goldfish being cold water, cold water slows down the bacteria as well. You've got two strikes against a quick cycle with the low pH and cold water, not really a huge deal as long as the parameters are kept in check.
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You could raise the pH naturally using crushed coral or some form of calcareous rocks like limestone or Texas holey rock, but it's not a must. I'd leave the pH the same just being aware that it will slow down the cycle.
Other than that I'd say you're doing it well, just keep doing water changes to maintain a non toxic environment and don't replace any filter media, substrate, or remove any decorations for the time being. Now it is basically just a waiting game.
Also, with goldfish being cold water, cold water slows down the bacteria as well. You've got two strikes against a quick cycle with the low pH and cold water, not really a huge deal as long as the parameters are kept in check.
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Mebbid
Aquarium Advice Addict
6.9pH is perfectly fine. Bacteria is happy down until 6.7pH at which point their growth slows down. Once the pH hits around 6.4 all growth will stop. As long as you're above those numbers you will be just fine.
You would very likely be cycled if you hadn't changed out your filter cartridge, but there's nothing that can be done except keep trucking on.
You would very likely be cycled if you hadn't changed out your filter cartridge, but there's nothing that can be done except keep trucking on.
Thanks for the information, it helps.
The pH is about 6.5, so I guess that would slow the cycle. I will get some pH up, and put a couple drops at a time, bring it up real slow. I see GF like 7.5. I will also look at the calcium. The hardness in our area is real low, about 20ppm out of the tap, so that is probably why my pH is running low. Any acidity, will cause it to come down easy with no buffer. Is there any standard harness levels recommended?
Got the Nitrate test kit today to complete the set, got 5 ppm as a result.
Nigel, you mentioned cold water and that is the case. I don't heat the tank, so it's sitting about 69 deg right now, the temp of my house.
I did by a bag of Fluval ammonia remover. It's supposed to be an alternative to the carbon segment. I didn't use it though as I thought it might slow the cycle.
The pH is about 6.5, so I guess that would slow the cycle. I will get some pH up, and put a couple drops at a time, bring it up real slow. I see GF like 7.5. I will also look at the calcium. The hardness in our area is real low, about 20ppm out of the tap, so that is probably why my pH is running low. Any acidity, will cause it to come down easy with no buffer. Is there any standard harness levels recommended?
Got the Nitrate test kit today to complete the set, got 5 ppm as a result.
Nigel, you mentioned cold water and that is the case. I don't heat the tank, so it's sitting about 69 deg right now, the temp of my house.
I did by a bag of Fluval ammonia remover. It's supposed to be an alternative to the carbon segment. I didn't use it though as I thought it might slow the cycle.
katiekelsey
Aquarium Advice Freak
Every time you do a water change you delay the cycling. I just set up a 75 gal tank on 12/24. My lfs is very knowledgeable and they said the tank can take 1 1/2 months to cycle. I check the water every other day. I won't do any water changes unless the 6 fish in there are stressed due to high ammonia or nitrites. So far I haven't changed any water. The fish are doing great and I feed them very light and only once a day. So far the tank hasn't yet really started to cycle. I'm learning to be patient. The larger the tank the longer the cycling takes.
NigelK8485
Aquarium Advice Addict
Water changes do not delay the cycle. Doing huge ones may, but frequent small ones do not. They actually help speed it up by oxygenating the water. http://www.firsttankguide.net/cyclechange.php
Any reading of ammonia or nitrites is toxic to the fish and causing stress, not only when it's a high reading and they are visibly showing signs. Tanks can take longer than a month and a half to cycle. And, the larger the tank the longer the cycle isn't true, there are too many variables to say that. Again, I cycled my 150 in three weeks, yet other people cycle a 30 gallon in five weeks.
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Now that I have the nitrate test, it along with the nitrite, ammonia I already had will dictate the water change. I had a hunch that WC's can lengthen the cycle time, but I don't want to stress the 1 big fish. So, I will keep changing water whenever get close to .25. Right now, I am 0 ammonia, and .1 nitrite, and 5 nitrate.
I also imagine that if I raise the pH as somebody suggested to "speed" the cycle, I will also increase the frequency of needed water changes to keep levels low.
I am only doing a 25-30 percent WC every week, or other week, so I am kind of surprised the nitrate level is as low as it is. I understand on a fully cycled tank the action level is 30-40 ppm?
I also imagine that if I raise the pH as somebody suggested to "speed" the cycle, I will also increase the frequency of needed water changes to keep levels low.
I am only doing a 25-30 percent WC every week, or other week, so I am kind of surprised the nitrate level is as low as it is. I understand on a fully cycled tank the action level is 30-40 ppm?
Mebbid
Aquarium Advice Addict
I hate to break it to you, but if a "knowledgeable" lfs td you that then they were knowledgeably trying to get you to kill fish in order to sell more. No reputable lfs would ever tell you that.
You changed sponge, that's why it doesn't cycle. Never change the sponge, rinse it once in a while in fish tank water and reuse it. You need to let the bacteria flourish and grow in the filter media (sponge). So if the sponge "looks dirty" that's a good thing, just as long as it's not clogged, you need water to flow through it.
The cycling is done in the filter so by changing it you defeat the purpose, do some small partial water changes once in a while though. It should not take more than two months to cycle from scratch but if you use a piece of an established filter into yours, no more than a couple of weeks.
So my advice... Don't clean the sponge for the first few months.
Good luck and keep us posted.
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The cycling is done in the filter so by changing it you defeat the purpose, do some small partial water changes once in a while though. It should not take more than two months to cycle from scratch but if you use a piece of an established filter into yours, no more than a couple of weeks.
So my advice... Don't clean the sponge for the first few months.
Good luck and keep us posted.
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Jmunroe
Aquarium Advice FINatic
This is true. Stay away from them, they are not knowledgeable at all. And to the OP, make sure to do your water changes to keep the stress low on your fish. Don't change filter pads... even after the tank is cycled. Get rid of the carbon and add mor bio media. It's a waste of space unless your removing meds from the water. Every couple months take the filter media out, give it a swish rinse in a bucket of discarded tank water and put it back in the filter. Replace them only when they fall apart. Too many people get caught in this endless money trap/cycle killing practice of replacing the filter media every month as the manufacturer suggest on the filter box, only to fill their coffers on your dime.
Thanks, this is the best tip yet. I have been very careful (or would have been with time) to not change more than 1 element out of the three at the same time, but not until now did I realize I wasn't supposed to changed the sponge on my Fluval every month.
So you are suggesting scrapping the carbon, and getting more media. Do you mean more of the little bio rocks in the Fluval filter, or do you mean a second sponge? Or, do you mean some of the granular Purigen instead of the carbon?
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
You may want to read this. It will explain the cycle better. Keep in mind that while this is a sale's pitch for the company's product, the science within it is what you are interested in using. Nitrifying Bacteria Facts
Hope this helps
Hope this helps
You may want to read this. It will explain the cycle better. Keep in mind that while this is a sale's pitch for the company's product, the science within it is what you are interested in using. Nitrifying Bacteria Facts
Hope this helps
Yes, it does ! Sounds like I really need to bump up the pH especially given my lower ambient tank temp.
Also, I am still interested in hearing what Jmunroe meant, when they suggested ditching the carbon, and adding more "media". Not sure if you folks are referring to rocks or the sponge. My Fluval filter has a sponge, carbon, and rocks from the bottom to the top.
I think the sponge change is also what caused my slight cloudiness to get worse for a couple reasons. The first is the BB, but the second is how tight the filter is. My pool always filters better when the backpressure is high, and the sand is plugged. Less water goes through, but what does is "microfiltered". I assume the same thing happens with the sponge and it filters more when it's closed.
NigelK8485
Aquarium Advice Addict
Carbon is really only useful in removing medications from a tank. If you aren't using medication there really isn't any need for the carbon. You can use a sponge or the rocks for biomedia, but using the porous rocks like pumice stone or the ceramic rings gives more surface area for the bacteria to grow and a better surface for them to stick to. I'd remove the carbon and add as much biomedia (ceramic rings, porous rocks) as you can fit in there.
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Sa777
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Try some used media to speed up the process.
