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Old 03-26-2010, 04:00 AM   #1
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White spot heat treatment and death of the rasboras

I got up about 3 days ago to find the clown loach had white spot. Now past dealings with white spot using medicine has resulted in dead loaches :s So I went for the all natural heat method Got it to dead on 30c/86f. (an all ready salted tank)

All was fine for first 36 hours Then I woke up to find 4 or 5 dead harlequin rasboras. So I turned the heater down but before the temperature even dropped a degree the rest had died withing 2-3 hours apart from one (feel reall sorry for him as he is last of a school of 15)

Turned the heater back up to 30c anyway and the white spots are almost off the clown loach. So I presume it is going into trophont stage and hopefully at this temperature it will be the last I see of this.

So looking for the silver lining I have decided maybe to try another type of schooling fish.The rasboras were highly active and top dwellers occasionally liking the middle. What other options have I got? I have read many things about danios, but I read they like cooler temperatures of 22-26c well I keep my tank at 27-28.

I have neons mollies guppies 2 Red Dwarf Gouramis an angel frog Red Clawed crab 2 yo yo loaches 2 clown loaches and 2 Bristle plecs. (the angel is a wimp before anyone goes guppies tetras and an angel?lol he swims away from live bloodworm lol)

Suggestions welcome then top dwelling schooling fish that are highly active and have some colour apart from silver please

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Old 03-26-2010, 04:24 AM   #2
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Make sure you keep the temp up even after you see the last spot.

I like my male endler's livebearers (hybrids)! They are all over the place though, not just the top, but they are REALLY funny!
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:36 AM   #3
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Its really hard to say without seeing the tank, but when you raise the temp to 86 you have to remember to do it slowly like one degree every hour or two or else it'll stress the fish to shock state and die. If its ich then put it to 86 for ten days while doing water changes and gravel vacs and you'll be fine. Didn't catch if you lost them all but I'm sorry if you did.
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Old 03-26-2010, 06:02 AM   #4
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Its really hard to say without seeing the tank, but when you raise the temp to 86 you have to remember to do it slowly like one degree every hour or two or else it'll stress the fish to shock state and die. If its ich then put it to 86 for ten days while doing water changes and gravel vacs and you'll be fine. Didn't catch if you lost them all but I'm sorry if you did.
I did raise it slowly I only had 2-3 degrees to go up (celcius) and done that over 24 hours. Aye I'm on day 4 of the 10 days and there is only one spot on dina (clown loach the original was deano so we called this one dina though it could be male lol)On is on her fins.When I had deano originally he developed a few of these spots on his fin. a few days after.

I went back to the shop and the owner said raise temp to 27 (used to be 24 c) and turn lights off for 36 hours. It is more than likely oxygen spots, if they don't go away come back and we will give you some treatment. I went away feeling sceptical and fobbed off, but followed his advice.After the 36 hours sure enough they went and havent been back for 4 months.

I'll be gutted if I can't beat ich this time and lose them.These 2 are my 3rd and 4th. Like I said before I lost 2 treating with chemicals. No I didn't lose all the rasbora's I lost 14 out of 15

As for endlers DK too much like guppies but thanks anyway.
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:53 AM   #5
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Ich can be devastating to fish and they can have it for quite a while before it's noticed by the fish-keeper. They might have just been too sick and the heat treatment while the only way to kill Ich also speeds up it's life-cycle and can temporarily do more damage than if the temp is kept lower.

What are "oxygen spots"? Do you mean bubbles on the surface of the fish? I don't know how that is possible since bubbles on the surface are normally due to COLD water being added to a warm tank, not just increasing the tank temperature gradually.

Warm water holds less gases than cold water and so when the cold water begins to warm it gasses off and if fish are in the vacinity of this temperature gradient bubbles can form under the skin as well.

You need to be doing DAILY 25-50% water changes (more importantly is to gravel vac 100% of the substrate during this water change, the water amount is less important), and be sure to add back same temp and salt concentration (if you have salt in the water, and take into consideration evaporation losses by adding less salt at each water change). Adding back in water that is cold when you are treating for Ich is a recipe for disaster (not saying you are/did).


Also the total time treating with heat is not a set day figure, rather 1-2 weeks AFTER the last signs are visible. Some tanks/fish take longer than others so IMO 10 days is not long enough to be sure it doesn't come back.

HTH
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Old 03-26-2010, 08:24 AM   #6
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Ich can be devastating to fish and they can have it for quite a while before it's noticed by the fish-keeper. They might have just been too sick and the heat treatment while the only way to kill Ich also speeds up it's life-cycle and can temporarily do more damage than if the temp is kept lower.
The rasboras certainly didn't have ich I have inspected each one carefully and no signs.They had been in there happily for 4-5 months.
Quote:
What are "oxygen spots"? Do you mean bubbles on the surface of the fish? I don't know how that is possible since bubbles on the surface are normally due to COLD water being added to a warm tank, not just increasing the tank temperature gradually.

Warm water holds less gases than cold water and so when the cold water begins to warm it gasses off and if fish are in the vacinity of this temperature gradient bubbles can form under the skin as well.
Well they are tiny "white" spots but only in the fin. 2 of them. Like I said the first of the current 2 loaches had these "spots" on his fin but no where else and was advised to raise temp to 28c ish add a bit of salt (tanks already salted) and turn lights off for 36 hours from the lfs that soldme him.That worked and I have never seen these for a few months till now. So maybe he wasn't using the correct term for what they were, all I know his advice worked!

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You need to be doing DAILY 25-50% water changes (more importantly is to gravel vac 100% of the substrate during this water change, the water amount is less important), and be sure to add back same temp and salt concentration (if you have salt in the water, and take into consideration evaporation losses by adding less salt at each water change). Adding back in water that is cold when you are treating for Ich is a recipe for disaster (not saying you are/did).


Also the total time treating with heat is not a set day figure, rather 1-2 weeks AFTER the last signs are visible. Some tanks/fish take longer than others so IMO 10 days is not long enough to be sure it doesn't come back.

HTH
I have been doing the vacs daily, but more of a 10% change. I have been adding a little less salt each time but I don't get much evaporation I have a piece of masking tape with water level marked on it

No I take alot of time adding hot/cold water till it is right temperature. As for time, 10 days is just all I have read but I was going to aim for 10 days AFTER the spots have gone. This was also dependant on how the fish are handling it.As the rasboras have gave up so quickly and didn't give me time to adjust the temp back down and the others are fine, I might as well carry on straight with the heat treatment. If I restock on rasboras and have ich issues again, I'll seperate them and treat them with medicine.

So any ideas of some top dwelling schooling fish that are nice and active?or am I going to get some more rasboras? thanks for your time 7


p.s the only thing I have done is took some fish from downstairs and put them upstairs. Just been reading how healthy fish can harbour and tolerate a certain amount of ich in their gills with out stress. Is that how I introduced it to them upstairs?:s
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Old 03-26-2010, 08:25 AM   #7
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You need to be doing DAILY 25-50% water changes (more importantly is to gravel vac 100% of the substrate during this water change, the water amount is less important), and be sure to add back same temp and salt concentration (if you have salt in the water, and take into consideration evaporation losses by adding less salt at each water change).
I agree, these are both very important. As the cysts fall off in to the substrate, the daily gravel vac will help get rid of them and prevent them from coming back. Also with the salt, thats very important as well... you dont want your salt concentration to get too high.
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Old 03-26-2010, 11:00 AM   #8
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p.s the only thing I have done is took some fish from downstairs and put them upstairs. Just been reading how healthy fish can harbour and tolerate a certain amount of ich in their gills with out stress. Is that how I introduced it to them upstairs?:s
It's very possible. That was why I had mentioned the rasboras could have possibly still had them though the condition normally spreads faster and if you were looking closely at them I'm sure you didn't miss it.

Ich is a really bad condition because of the secondary infection possibilities from the damage to the fish. Many people will treat with Pimafix/Melafix after the treatment has been finished to prevent against complications. This is also a potential reason why the rasboras could have gone downhill so quickly. If they had a bacterial/fungal infection after previously being treated for Ich, the raised temps could have been the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

I can't give any recommendations on stocking, however, I highly recommend that you QT any new fish (and possibly find a new place to purchase since this has happened more than once) to avoid having to treat the entire tank. That's one of the main reasons I haven't added any more fish to my tank (I have a single cory that needs some companions). I'd be very upset if I had an Ich outbreak since my tank is heavily planted.
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Old 03-26-2010, 01:43 PM   #9
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It's very possible. That was why I had mentioned the rasboras could have possibly still had them though the condition normally spreads faster and if you were looking closely at them I'm sure you didn't miss it.

Ich is a really bad condition because of the secondary infection possibilities from the damage to the fish. Many people will treat with Pimafix/Melafix after the treatment has been finished to prevent against complications. This is also a potential reason why the rasboras could have gone downhill so quickly. If they had a bacterial/fungal infection after previously being treated for Ich, the raised temps could have been the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

I can't give any recommendations on stocking, however, I highly recommend that you QT any new fish (and possibly find a new place to purchase since this has happened more than once) to avoid having to treat the entire tank. That's one of the main reasons I haven't added any more fish to my tank (I have a single cory that needs some companions). I'd be very upset if I had an Ich outbreak since my tank is heavily planted.
I have a 5G tank with a betta and some fry in it. Thats allI can use for a QT tank. Will this be ok for 6 rasbora at a time i suppose will the limit? Will have to do it in 2 or 3 maybe 4 additions at at a time over several months.
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Old 03-26-2010, 02:41 PM   #10
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I have a 5G tank with a betta and some fry in it. Thats allI can use for a QT tank. Will this be ok for 6 rasbora at a time i suppose will the limit? Will have to do it in 2 or 3 maybe 4 additions at at a time over several months.
Rubbermaid containers make great QT tanks. They are cheap, come in a 20 gallon size which IMO is a perfect size as water changes are not required as frequently, less chance of aggression with larger room to swim, and you can get your entire batch at once.
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:00 PM   #11
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Rubbermaid containers make great QT tanks. They are cheap, come in a 20 gallon size which IMO is a perfect size as water changes are not required as frequently, less chance of aggression with larger room to swim, and you can get your entire batch at once.
Great idea! though can't get "rubber maids" here in uk though plenty of other storage bins, that size around. Thanks for the idea
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:53 PM   #12
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Have you seen endlers? They're beautiful! One of my little guys has neon yellow on his tail, and the other one has black on his tail. They actually look like endlers mixed with swordtails, and man do they make me laugh!
You could try a dwarf gourami, hatchetfish, butterfly fish, tetras and killifish for top fish.
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Old 03-27-2010, 02:56 PM   #13
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Have you seen endlers? They're beautiful! One of my little guys has neon yellow on his tail, and the other one has black on his tail. They actually look like endlers mixed with swordtails, and man do they make me laugh!
You could try a dwarf gourami, hatchetfish, butterfly fish, tetras and killifish for top fish.
Which of them school? Already have neon tetras so will give them a miss
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Old 03-27-2010, 06:29 PM   #14
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What about bleeding heart tetras, or some other sort of tetras?
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Old 03-29-2010, 07:15 AM   #15
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Great idea! though can't get "rubber maids" here in uk though plenty of other storage bins, that size around. Thanks for the idea
Ha, sorry didn't see you were on the other side of the "pond". Rubbermaid is just a namebrand plastic tub that comes in all different dimensions. The plastic doesn't leech chemicals into the water and they are very cheap.
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