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Old 07-19-2006, 10:25 PM   #1
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Who done it?

OK 29 Gallon tank. Understand NONE of these fish are full grown.

The tank has
1 common pleco
3 Serpae Tetras
2 Neon Tetras
2 Black Angels
1 White/Yellow Angel
1 Altrum Angel
3 Peppered Cory Cats
2 Albino Cory Cats
1 Aneous Cory Cat
1 Apple Snail (small)
1 ramshorn snail
2 Amano Shrimp
1 male guppy
1 female guppy

In the last month, 1 black angel (a third) and a neon tetra (a third) have gone completely missing, no evidence has been found of their remains.

this happened suddenly.

Over the past few weeks, The fins on the largest of the remaining blackangels has been torn and shreaded. Today, the tail of the smallest angel, the white/yellow one, has been completely removed, and his other fins have been torn up pretty well. I am removing him to a his own 5 gallon tonight for treatment/meds.

No agression has ever been seen in this tank. My guess is on the Serpae Tetras, I am asking for others to let me know their beliefs and reasons behind them.

Thankyou.
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Old 07-19-2006, 11:29 PM   #2
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I'd bet the angels are fighting amoungst themselves. The neon could easily have been eaten by an angel depending on how big they are. But the tattered fins are most likely from the angels fighting one another. Your tank is big enough for one pair of angels in my opinion. You have way too many in too small a tank and combined with all those other fish 8O Have any seemed to form a pair yet? Id keep the pair and get rid of the rest. And even then you probably have too many. But the remaining neons will probably eventually be eaten as well.
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Old 07-19-2006, 11:34 PM   #3
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It's either the betta(s), the serpaes or themselves. I'm taking a shot at it being the betta(s). They love flowing angel fins even more than serpaes.
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Old 07-19-2006, 11:43 PM   #4
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That tank is overstocked/overcrowded. I don't think a 29g is big enough for 4 angels. 2 would be the max.

I would also guess that the angels are fighting. In a tank that is too small, fighting between them could kill one.
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Old 07-19-2006, 11:45 PM   #5
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How big are the angels? The serpaes are a prime suspect IMO as they do not have a full school and can be very nippy.
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Old 07-20-2006, 01:30 AM   #6
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OK let me rephrase this. When I say that the fish are not full grown. none of the angels has a body length of over 1 inch the only fish over 2 inch in this tank is the pleco. it is FAR from being overstocked rightnow
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Old 07-20-2006, 02:03 AM   #7
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Well it is still a lot of fish, regardless of size. The reason why just20 stated the overcrowdness is because there will be more aggression with this many fish regardless of their size.

I tend to agree with Rich on the serpaes, followed by the Angels, then the Betta IMO and experience. Could be any of the three. The fact is there is more aggression when you have this many fish.
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Old 07-20-2006, 12:58 PM   #8
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ok thanks.

BTW, where is this Betta y'all keep mentioning?
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Old 07-20-2006, 01:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarred Darque
BTW, where is this Betta y'all keep mentioning?
That's what I was wondering too. I looked for him twice on the posted list and didn't see him...
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Old 07-20-2006, 02:07 PM   #10
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Well it is still a lot of fish, regardless of size. The reason why just20 stated the overcrowdness is because there will be more aggression with this many fish regardless of their size.
^That. It is too crowded. And, most of those fish will get large, so your crowding will only get worse. Because of that, it is difficult to predict exactly who the culprit is because the crowding could easily be inducing abnormal and/or overly aggressive behavior you might not otherwise see. But based on your stocking list, I would say it has to be either the other angles, or possibly just being nipped to death by the serpaes.

Then again, you didn't say what type of guppies you have. I am aware of a new breed of South American guppy that, while they look just as cute and harmless as their more peaceful cousins, have been known to gang up and take down entire schools of adult oscars in minutes. ...okay, yeah, I just made that up.
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Old 07-20-2006, 02:24 PM   #11
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that's what I was wondering!
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Old 07-20-2006, 04:12 PM   #12
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Hmm....read it on a response. Guess somebody made a glitch
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Old 07-20-2006, 04:38 PM   #13
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It's so easy to overstock a tank and not even realize that you did it. My 29 gallon is currently overstocked and has been for quite some time. I bought way too many fish in the beginning because I knew nothing about hte hobby, and I had many problems. A few weeks ago I bought a 3 inch Oscar, and he's already four inches long. He's eaten 4 of my fish. I then replaced those with 4 Red Devil Cichlids to help in the eradication process. Those cichlids ate my five tiger barbs. I also lost four fish in the move. If you've never moved fish, it's easy to kill them. I nearly lost ALL of them. They were all hanging on by a thread.

Even now, my tank is still a bit overstocked. Here's my current stock.

4 inch Oscar
3 inch Rainbow shark
2 1.5-inch rainbow sharks (obviously these are the dominant ones)
2 Painted Tetras (had six, but the Oscar seems to like the flavor of these guys. It's ok... I don't like them much anyhow.
4 Red Devil Cichlids (about 1.5 inches long)
2 3-inch Bala Shark
1 3.5-inch Silver Dollar (I think it's full grown at this point)
1 Longfinned barb
1 3-inch Pleco

This is just in a 29 gallon. When I started the hobby, I had twice as many fish. Really frustrating having all the problems that causes. My water levels are still way out of whack, but at this point most of the fish seem to have adapted to it. When I moved the fish, I put them in fresh water, and the shock of that killed four of them and the rest were almost ready to go too.

I expect that my smaller rainbows, my painted tetras, and my longfinned barb will get eaten. I'm ok with this since most of them are schooling fish anyhow. The Oscar will grow very quickly. Once he exceeds six inches, I will be setting up my other 29 gallon tank to put my dominant rainbow shark into. He's my favorite. I'll leave the rest of the fish in the other tank to be Oscar food.

Eventually, the Oscar will outgrow that tank. If I don't have the money to get a bigger tank for him, I will return him to the pet store. If I do have enough money to get him a larger tank, that would be pretty sweet.

Anyways, I got off on a tangent, but I seriously hope that you are planning on upgrading to a larger tank as those fish grow, because if my inexperience has taught me anything, it's that overstocking a tank is one of the easiest and most common mistakes to make in this hobby.
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Old 07-20-2006, 04:54 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Ferret_Friend
Even now, my tank is still a bit overstocked. Here's my current stock.
"A bit" doesn't even begin to describe it. My friend, given the fish you have, you are way overstocked. But so as not to hijack this discussion, post another thread on the subject if you want more feedback. (BTW, I post this not to knock you personally, especially since you haven't solicited advice on the subject, but to reemphasize the overstocking problem to the thread starter. Please do not take this as a personal attack--it is offered as a friendly observation that is extremely relevant to the discussion in this thread)
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Old 07-20-2006, 04:56 PM   #15
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It doesn't matter, that Oscar will eat them all anyway
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Old 07-20-2006, 04:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bosk1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferret_Friend
Even now, my tank is still a bit overstocked. Here's my current stock.
"A bit" doesn't even begin to describe it. My friend, given the fish you have, you are way overstocked. But so as not to hijack this discussion, post another thread on the subject if you want more feedback. (BTW, I post this not to knock you personally, especially since you haven't solicited advice on the subject, but to reemphasize the overstocking problem to the thread starter. Please do not take this as a personal attack--it is offered as a friendly observation that is extremely relevant to the discussion in this thread)
Well, compared to before when I had twice as many fish, this thing isn't quite as heavily stocked. Sure, it's still too much, but I expect that with time, my Oscar will gobble up some of the other fish, and problem solved.

But the point is just that it's really easy to overstock a tank and not even know you did it. Like I said... I had about twice as many fish in this tank before, and even then I had trouble accepting that it was overstocked. People just don't realize exactly how much water an individual fish needs.

My next tank will be done right from the very beginning. At this point, I'm just waiting to see what happens with this one.
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Old 07-20-2006, 04:59 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferret_Friend
It's so easy to overstock a tank and not even realize that you did it. My 29 gallon is currently overstocked and has been for quite some time. I bought way too many fish in the beginning because I knew nothing about hte hobby, and I had many problems. A few weeks ago I bought a 3 inch Oscar, and he's already four inches long. He's eaten 4 of my fish. I then replaced those with 4 Red Devil Cichlids to help in the eradication process. Those cichlids ate my five tiger barbs. I also lost four fish in the move. If you've never moved fish, it's easy to kill them. I nearly lost ALL of them. They were all hanging on by a thread.

Even now, my tank is still a bit overstocked. Here's my current stock.

4 inch Oscar
3 inch Rainbow shark
2 1.5-inch rainbow sharks (obviously these are the dominant ones)
2 Painted Tetras (had six, but the Oscar seems to like the flavor of these guys. It's ok... I don't like them much anyhow.
4 Red Devil Cichlids (about 1.5 inches long)
2 3-inch Bala Shark
1 3.5-inch Silver Dollar (I think it's full grown at this point)
1 Longfinned barb
1 3-inch Pleco

This is just in a 29 gallon. When I started the hobby, I had twice as many fish. Really frustrating having all the problems that causes. My water levels are still way out of whack, but at this point most of the fish seem to have adapted to it. When I moved the fish, I put them in fresh water, and the shock of that killed four of them and the rest were almost ready to go too.

I expect that my smaller rainbows, my painted tetras, and my longfinned barb will get eaten. I'm ok with this since most of them are schooling fish anyhow. The Oscar will grow very quickly. Once he exceeds six inches, I will be setting up my other 29 gallon tank to put my dominant rainbow shark into. He's my favorite. I'll leave the rest of the fish in the other tank to be Oscar food.

Eventually, the Oscar will outgrow that tank. If I don't have the money to get a bigger tank for him, I will return him to the pet store. If I do have enough money to get him a larger tank, that would be pretty sweet.

Anyways, I got off on a tangent, but I seriously hope that you are planning on upgrading to a larger tank as those fish grow, because if my inexperience has taught me anything, it's that overstocking a tank is one of the easiest and most common mistakes to make in this hobby.
Or you could just return the oscar, rainbow sharks (just 2 of them), red devils, bala shark, silver dollar and pleco. All of those fish I listed will get too big for a 29 gal except the rainbow sharks (you should only have 1 though).
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Old 07-20-2006, 05:05 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarred Darque
OK let me rephrase this. When I say that the fish are not full grown. none of the angels has a body length of over 1 inch the only fish over 2 inch in this tank is the pleco. it is FAR from being overstocked rightnow
No, actually it is overstocked right now. You have alot messy eaters in that tank, it doesn't matter if they're only less than 2".

As far as the fin nippers, I would put the blame on the serpae tetras.
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Old 07-20-2006, 05:24 PM   #19
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The tank isn't overstocked now, but it will be. Its a good thing to keep in mind how big a fish will get when its full grown, unless you have another tank ready to place them in when they get bigger. Most people don't have this and buy fish that will soon outgrow the tank or overstock the tank.
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Old 07-20-2006, 05:49 PM   #20
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we don't need to beat it in but yes it is overstocked now. A lot of biol load for a tank that size regardless of their individual sizes. Bottom line is you will have more aggression, more diseases, and unhappy fish. Ferret_Friend's tank is VERY overstocked but that is ok. That is why we are all here to help and learn. Both tanks can be fixed.
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