Will using Prime disrupt a cycling tank?

[eco23]

Hi everyone. I'm fishless cycling a 48 gallon and have a question about Prime. I'm at the point where my tank is taking 4ppm of ammonia down to 0ppm in under 24 hours. My nitrItes and nitrAtes are absolutely through the roof and I've heard that if they are TOO high it can stall the cycle.

I'd like to do a 30% water change (with my new Python I got today!) to get the levels down a little bit.

If I add Prime to remove the chlorine/chloramines, doesn't it also remove the ammonia and nitrItes too? I can obviously dose the ammonia back up to 4ppm , but if it takes out all the nitrItes in the water, wont that stall the nitrItes to nitrAtes bacteria?

Any help or explanation is appreciated!

 

[Vircomore]

This shouldn't cause a problem for you. If you read the directions on the Prime - it actually requires a 500% dose of Prime to "effectively eliminate Nitrites" - so as long as you only use the 100% dose for your size tank - it won't impact your nitrite levels.

If you're going to use the python - I'd recommend making sure that when you go to do the refill - make sure the python isn't pumping the tap water directly at your filter intake. This will give the Prime enough time to eliminate the chlorine from the new water before it gets into your filter because Chlorine on a cycling filter could do more damage than a lack of nitrites.

 

[OhNeil1969]

Adding Prime shouldn't affect your cycle. In fact, if you don't add Prime to dechlorinate the water you will effectively kill any bacteria already in the tank (that's what the chlorine for in our drinking water).

You mentioned that your nitrites and nitrates are through the roof. That's a little weird. NitrAtes are usually only present when a tank is cycled. If you wait another 24 hours what is the nitrite reading? It sounds like you added ammonia to maintain the cycle and caused an ammonia spike which resulted in a nitrIte spike. If you have nitrates you may have a cycled tank (unless it's from your source water, but I can't imagine it being that high from the tap). I'd perform a large water change to get the nitrAtes down to about 20 ppm and just add enough ammonia to get a reading of about 1 ppm. Wait 24 hours and recheck. If your ammonia and nitrItes start dropping to 0 ppm and your nitrAtes start to creep up then you'll know you have a cycled tank. Now you'll be ready for fish! Let me know how it goes.

 

[eco23]

Adding Prime shouldn't affect your cycle. In fact, if you don't add Prime to dechlorinate the water you will effectively kill any bacteria already in the tank (that's what the chlorine for in our drinking water).

You mentioned that your nitrites and nitrates are through the roof. That's a little weird. NitrAtes are usually only present when a tank is cycled. If you wait another 24 hours what is the nitrite reading? It sounds like you added ammonia to maintain the cycle and caused an ammonia spike which resulted in a nitrIte spike. If you have nitrates you may have a cycled tank (unless it's from your source water, but I can't imagine it being that high from the tap). I'd perform a large water change to get the nitrAtes down to about 20 ppm and just add enough ammonia to get a reading of about 1 ppm. Wait 24 hours and recheck. If your ammonia and nitrItes start dropping to 0 ppm and your nitrAtes start to creep up then you'll know you have a cycled tank. Now you'll be ready for fish! Let me know how it goes.

I'm a novice and I could be completely wrong, but I'm confused about your explanation of the cycle.

My understanding is that there are 2 different types of bacteria that develop in a cycling tank.
#1- Bacteria that converts Ammonia to nitrItes
*this I'm sure is fully established since I can go from 4ppm down to 0 in 24 hrs.
#2- Bacteria that converts nitrItes to nitrAtes
*this is what I believe is developing as we speak because my nitrAtes are steadily climbing every day

So on a daily basis I'm adding ammonia to the tank which is turning into nitrItes from the #1 bacteria, should't I also have a presence of nitrItes and nitrAtes as the #2 bacteria is in the process of colonizing?

My understanding is that a tank is cycled when it can go through the entire process of ammonia>nitrItes>nitrAtes in 24 hours. Then you just do a major water change before you add fish to get the nitrAtes into an acceptable level.

The way I was seeing it is that my tank is maybe 70% cycled since the #1 bacteria is ready to go, and the #2 bacteria is getting pretty good at converting the nitrItes to nitrAtes so I'm just waiting for the nitrItes to peak (I've always heard they spike as part of the cycle), then drop and I'm set.

Again, I guess I could be wrong, but isn't that how it works?

 

[OhNeil1969]

You pretty much have a good understanding of the process. The point I was making is that both bacteria colonies have to be presence for nitrAtes to appear. Since you said that your nitrAtes were through the roof it would seem that you have a significant bacteria colony that converts nitrItes to nitrAtes. When I cycled my last tank I found that once the nitrite converting bacteria is present your levels will drop overnight. It takes a long time for that colony of bacteria to arrive, but once they come, they come in force.

 

[eco23]

I think my terminology "through the roof" may have been a bit exaggerated on my part. I just tested with my API Master Kit and here are my results.

Ammonia- .25 (it was dosed up to 4ppm last night around 8 pm)
nitrItes- These are through the roof, easily 10ppm, double the highest reading on the card.
nitrAtes- A little above 30ppm.

I'm leaning towards doing the PWC to get my nitrITes down and monitor it over the next couple days. Maybe my nitrItes are too high and are keeping the cycle from completing?

 

[eco23]

Also OhNeil, I'm only up the road from you a little ways in Fredericksburg. Do you guys have any fantastic fish stores where you live? Places around here are pretty lackluster.

 

[OhNeil1969]

I think my terminology "through the roof" may have been a bit exaggerated on my part. I just tested with my API Master Kit and here are my results.

Ammonia- .25 (it was dosed up to 4ppm last night around 8 pm)
nitrItes- These are through the roof, easily 10ppm, double the highest reading on the card.
nitrAtes- A little above 30ppm.

I'm leaning towards doing the PWC to get my nitrITes down and monitor it over the next couple days. Maybe my nitrItes are too high and are keeping the cycle from completing?

I don't think you need to perform a water change for the nitrItes. I had similar readings during my last fishless cycle and was really tempted to perform that water change. Just as I was getting frustrated and about to perform that pwc my nitrItes dropped.

Also OhNeil, I'm only up the road from you a little ways in Fredericksburg. Do you guys have any fantastic fish stores where you live? Places around here are pretty lackluster.

I have one place that I've bought fish from the past couple of times called Azalea Aquariums. I was kind of put off when I first walked in the place (was dark and felt "old") and some of the reviews I read on the internet were bad (all seemed to be about the manager's difficult demeanor). But they did refuse to sell me some fish that they knew had ich. All the fish I've bought have been healthy and they have a decent selection. I spoke to the manager and he wasn't that bad to me. I would strongly recommend that you brush up on your research before you visit. That seems to be what sets him off.

 

[Tim Wheatley]

It sounds like your tank is almost there. I would do the PWC and check tomorrow.