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Old 03-02-2020, 01:06 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earhtmother View Post
Autumn
After reading multiple posts both here and on club sites I'd be willing to say more people use meds as a preventative measure than you would think and probably at least 50% of the time a quarantine time with regular water changes would do just as well.
I'm interested in your thoughts about guppies, sunken bellies & internal parasites because I've experienced something similar and it's what has started my change from Guppies to Endlers which don't seem to have the same issues. I've noticed that is happens more often after a mother drops her babies so I'm wondering if there is correlation between females that are carrying internal parasites while pregnant and once the fry are gone have no reserves left to fight.
Didn't have time to start the discussion right now, feel free to start it off!
https://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...ml#post3537334
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Old 03-02-2020, 11:00 PM   #22
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Day 4 and no additional loses. Cloudiness has cleared up without water changes and ammonia/nitrite remain zero.

All inhabitants normal except the pale Pygmy has become more reclusive. Not a great sign for that little guy. But he’s still hanging in there.

6 gallon keeps on keeping on. I’ve slacked off on removing molts from that tank but still no sign of parasites.
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Old 03-02-2020, 11:39 PM   #23
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Canít add to help but good luck with them - following along.
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Old 03-03-2020, 01:03 AM   #24
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Sad, hoping the medication helps the little pale Cory.
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Old 03-06-2020, 10:26 AM   #25
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Unfortunately the little pale Pygmy didnít make it. I finished the course of antibiotics and havenít yet done a water change. (Flu has hit me hard and I have no energy for anything.). But thereís been no mini cycle, so thatís good.

I havenít noticed any more lost shrimp but with my household getting sick I havenít had much time to observe them. The remaining bamboo shrimp and cories seem active though the bamboo is irritable at the lack of feeding the last couple days. Scraping the bottom some Iíll try to get something powdered in there sooner rather than later but I donít want to screw up the water quality when I have no energy to clean it up.

Iím on my own today with a recovering little one and the flu myself so fish tanks are way bottom priority.

For reference when I talk about blotchyness in my shrimp for some it is darker spots in the body but some others look like this. Is this a
Normal color distribution for some PFR or are these potentially problematic shrimp.
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Old 03-06-2020, 05:50 PM   #26
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Seeing good detail in pics is tough for me. But I have had a number of oddly colored shrimp which look the same as that. PFR also, almost like patches in the body of deeper red almost brown tint. These type shrimp of mine produced Chocolates and a Black (long since moved on from that group of shrimp, maybe 5-6 years back).

Hope you feel better soon.

This line also produced a colony of Blue Velvets (not for me but the person I got them from). Lots of variety from these guys.
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Old 03-07-2020, 07:05 AM   #27
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I was hoping that particular color was just a natural variant. A bunch of them just in the last couple weeks have developed that coloration and they look very healthy so I thought it was just their mature color pattern filling in as they got older.

I havenít had the chance to really inspect the tank to see if the course of antiobiptics has cleared up the other more suspicious looking dark patches. I donít think Iíve lost more than one shrimp since I started treating with antibiotics, which would be an improvement but with the tank receiving limited food and me not playing close attention the last few days Iím sure any dead shrimp would not have lasted long. Unfortunately when the pale fish did pass it was at least half a day before I saw it and the shrimp had already mostly stripped it before I noticed so if what it had was contagious that could be bad.

The six gallon keeps on chugginí along. Same caveat that if I did lose shrimp itís possible I may not have seen them with only daily check ins, but so far so good.

Neither tank shows any evidence of Scutariella now. Not that Iím implying the antibiotic did it. Both have been clear since about the day of or one day after I started maracyn. I guess the paraguard works pretty well on them. but I havenít been removing molts since I got sick so weíll have to see if they come back. Even before I got sick Iím sure I was missing some, thereís a lot of plants /moss / moss balls in that tank for molts to be hidden under.

Interestingly I didnít see any issues with ammonia/nitrite throughout maracyn treatment. I still havenít put the biomedia back in. The stocking is probably a couple dozen or more RCS, one bamboo shrimp and 14 Pygmy cories and at least a half dozen nerites. But even when I lost the bamboo shrimp and the Cory it didnít seem to cause a blip. Perhaps all the plants and moss made up the deficit by using any trace ammonia as fertilizer.
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Old 03-07-2020, 09:40 PM   #28
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Good overall. Glad you are giving so much detail and it is very interesting.
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Old 03-13-2020, 04:10 PM   #29
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Sorry about the delay. As I mentioned, My son got sick and gave it to me (sharing is caring ) and so I’m just now coming up for air.

The 6g looks fine. No more worms after treatment and no deaths. I think I lost one after moving them all over, maybe transport stress but since then all good.

The 10g, unfortunately is still seeing the slow and steady die off, one every few days or so after antibiotics. The one pale Cory didn’t make it but all others are fine as far as I can tell. (Too many plants to be able to count.)

Now I’m trying to decide if I should do another round of antibiotics or try something else.I may just try a massive increase in water changes and vaccing. The fact that the 6gal is doing so well gives me some evidence that the pathogen might be able to be diluted out of toxic levels or is perhaps being directly passed from one to another perhaps when one dies.
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Old 03-14-2020, 03:27 AM   #30
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Maybe it burnt itself out?
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Old 03-17-2020, 03:40 PM   #31
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Certainly not in the 10 as that one is still having the every few days deaths.

Interestingly theyíre still breeding over replacement level.
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Old 03-27-2020, 12:26 PM   #32
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Well I’ve pulled half a dozen more shrimp out of the 10 in the last week all of which with an obvious internal dark coloration.

Due to Coronavirus getting new meds would likely take some time so I’m going to do another course of the antibiotic I already have for a longer time course and see if that gets it. Clearly there is some kind of bacterial infection lose in that tank that wasn’t taken out by five days of maracyn. I’m also increasing water changing and vaccing the sand and cleaning filters. There’s zero chance at this point that ‘overcleaning’ will do more damage than the infection is the bioload is very light and even during antibiotics I never had a water parameter problem.

Ive also unfortunately lost two cherries out of the six now which had, until last week seemed to be free of the infection. It’s possible it’s just chance. Losing shrimp occasionally isn’t unheard of and i am losing way more from the 10 than the six despite similar population sizes.

Still, I am highly tempted to move all the cherries I can catch back into the ten to treat them all at once, now that I’m no longer convinced the six contains a healthy sub population.

This has been such a bizarre process. Honestly part of me wants to just dump all my shrimp back into the ten and just clean out and order new shrimp for the six. maybe just run it with the few zebras for a while since they seem unaffected by this bug for some reason and order some more zebras for the six. Then just run two weeks of antibiotics and huge water changes in the ten and hope I do more damage to the bacteria than the shrimp.

Maybe that’s an overreaction due to frustration. Losing a couple shrimp over weeks wouldn’t normally concern me if I wasn’t dealing with a mess in the 10
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Old 03-27-2020, 06:04 PM   #33
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Bad news Does seem to be just about to starting again
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Old 03-28-2020, 01:26 AM   #34
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Rearing back up , I am so sorry. It is a concerning, and frustrating problem to have. I would try to catch all the cherries and treat together. Start new in the 6. And more Zebras, and QT them?!?!.
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Old 03-30-2020, 11:54 PM   #35
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Iíve had a couple batches of babies in the 6 already so itíll be impossible to catch them all but Iíll catch all I can and move them back. I wonít be able to get around to it for a couple days but that seems the most reasonable.

I was very hopeful when I went so long without a death in the 6 but clearly that didnít last

Iíll leave it running with any teeny shrimp I just canít catch yet and the zebra babaulti for a while to see if I can get away without completely sterilizing it. It is very interesting that I have never once noticed this issue in the zebras.
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Old 03-31-2020, 12:10 AM   #36
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Hoping it stays that way. What do the Zebras have??? ...maybe better immune system, less inbreeding / line breeding? Top thoughts.
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Old 04-01-2020, 01:58 PM   #37
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Maybe less inbreeding due to higher expense and lower demand?

I have lost a few so they may not be entirely immune. But I started with only 12 and I think I counted 8 when I moved them to the 6 at least a few months later (I know at least 2-3 of those loses were within a week of acclimating then to the tank which is to be expected sometimes). And no dead one I pulled out had any sign of discoloration while the cherries show a very obvious black discoloration when I lose them. I havenít lost a zebra in months since they were new as far as I know.

Too bad they donít breed as readily as cherries! I have read that they will breed eventually in similar conditions as cherries but take longer to get started and breed more slowly than cherries which likely contributes to the higher price tag.

Iím still out of town so the tanks are on their own for a couple days but when I get back in town Iíll definitely move as many cherries back as I can and continue with the antibiotics.
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Old 04-04-2020, 11:13 PM   #38
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Back in town and moved the bulk of
the RCS shrimp back into the 10 which is still getting antibiotics and now paraguard (thought it might help at the spread stage of whatever this is.) I did lose another couple from the 6 while I was gone so Iím more confident then ever that the apparently symptomless shrimp in the 6 were in fact infected too and should be treated.

Havenít lost anymore from the 10 since starting treatment. Donít know if that is chance or the antibiotics knocking back the infection.

The information that came with the meds said after a five day treatment you could continue treatment Ďdepending on the severity of the infectioní so Iím going to continue using them for at least another 5 days after today/tomorrow so the shrimp from the 6 get at least one full dose. Iím also going to keep using paraguard daily. It doesnít seem to do them any harm and maybe it will help prevent transmission from shrimp to shrimp.

Fingers crossed.

Iíll continue moving shrimp over the next day or two as I see them. Still havenít decided if I should leave the zebras or not. Iím leaving them for now along with the one nerite in there keeping the glass tidy for me! I kinda feel like Iíll move them back to the 10 too and just let it run empty for a while and maybe treat with hydrogen peroxide with just plants in the tank. Havenít decided yet for now just trying to catch all the cherries!
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Old 04-05-2020, 12:42 AM   #39
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So sorry you are having such a terrible situation with them.
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Old 04-06-2020, 12:30 PM   #40
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It is frustrating. And I started losing the zebras a few daws ago too so that at least makes it clear what I need to do. Everything I can catch is going back in the 10 for antibiotics/ paraguard
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