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Old 11-25-2018, 01:29 PM   #1
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PH nightmare

Hey everyone. Im sorry I feel like im hogging the forums lately. So in a previous thread i moved my koi inside. I am having constant ph issues since this. My tap water has a ph of 7.0 to 7.2 however even doing 50 to 60% water changes my on in tank never gets above about 6.4. I do have API ph up but it doesn't say how long to wait to test so I'm wondering if im doing something wrong.

I waited about 10 mins after starting up my filter again before testing ph today
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Old 11-26-2018, 12:17 AM   #2
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You should wait 24 hours after your water change to test your pH. If it's still on the acidic side.....add some crushed coral to your substrate to naturally raise pH. I wouldn't use pH buffers as it can cause pH swings that could kill your fish.
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Old 11-26-2018, 11:44 PM   #3
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Thanks ill give that a try. Just as an fyi I picked up 100ml of Purigen in bag and in less than 24 hours its almost completely used up and discolored its suppose to last up to 6 months in 100 gallons. This tank is only 29 gallons. I just think I'm screqing something up or this penguin 200 is a **** filter
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Old 11-27-2018, 12:13 AM   #4
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You probably need more minerals to allow the tank to stay stable - allow the water to have buffering capability.
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Old 11-27-2018, 12:35 PM   #5
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So, pH up and pH buffer are not the same thing. A buffer's purpose is to maintain pH, while a pH up type of product is to raise the pH. Without the buffer it won't stay up. The buffer used to maintain a +7 pH is simple baking soda. While it can, and will, raise the pH somewhat, the primary purpose is to counter act acid. It is what is used in swimming pools to maintain a pH of 7.4 to 7.6. The water chemistry is the same in a swimming pool or fish tank.
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Old 11-27-2018, 12:50 PM   #6
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So, pH up and pH buffer are not the same thing. A buffer's purpose is to maintain pH, while a pH up type of product is to raise the pH. Without the buffer it won't stay up. The buffer used to maintain a +7 pH is simple baking soda. While it can, and will, raise the pH somewhat, the primary purpose is to counter act acid. It is what is used in swimming pools to maintain a pH of 7.4 to 7.6. The water chemistry is the same in a swimming pool or fish tank.
Thank you for this, what is a typical dosing level of baking soda, i cant seem to locate one.
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Old 11-27-2018, 02:00 PM   #7
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I can't remember the exact amount but, I believe you want between 80 to 120 ppm. How to calculate that is up to you. You might find answers to that on Cichlid-Forum.com as there are many who keep Africans buffer their water.
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Old 11-27-2018, 02:53 PM   #8
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Thank you for this, what is a typical dosing level of baking soda, i cant seem to locate one.
If you use baking soda remember to dose the baking soda with every water change and keep the tank dosage the same overall or you will swing the pH and cause harm to the fish. If you can get the dosing dialed in it definitely can work. If you don't it can fluctuate your pH which isn't good.
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Old 11-27-2018, 02:58 PM   #9
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If you use baking soda remember to dose the baking soda with every water change and keep the tank dosage the same overall or you will swing the pH and cause harm to the fish. If you can get the dosing dialed in it definitely can work. If you don't it can fluctuate your pH which isn't good.
Would you guys sugggest to get something different instead such as Seachem Neutral Regulator?
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:18 AM   #10
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Update.

So this weekend I'll be getting some crushed coral. To add to my 29gallon tank. However for poops and laughs I decided to do sometesting on my 10 gallon tank and I am at a conundrum

29 gallon. _____________' 10 gallon
Aqueon tank. ___________ Aqueon tank
Tap water. ___________ Tap water
Seachem prime. ___________ Seachem prime
Penguin 250. ___________ Penguin 100
Imaginutarium gravel. __________ Imaginutarium gravel
Tetra 60gallon. Air pump. __________ Tetra 20 gal air pump
2 koi. _____________________ 3 4 inch plastic plant
5 inch each ______________________ 1 koi 6 gold fish
_______________________ 1 to 4 inch each

Levels

Ph 6.0 to 6.2. Ph 7.0 to 7.6
Ammonia 4 ppm. Ammonia 6 + ppm


I have done 50% water changes in both in the last 3 days...

I think i suck at aquariums
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:41 AM   #11
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Well your tank isn't cycled. You need to do way more water changes if your ammonia is that high. First off you need to do 5...yes 5.... back to back 50% water changes on both tanks. Or until your ammonia reads 0 to .25 ppm. Then test your water daily for ammonia and nitrites. Never let them get above .25 ppm. If this means every day or every other day 50% water changes then that's what has to happen until you are cycled.

As you probably realize, you have fish that require a substantially larger tank. Not only to support the size of these fish as they grow but also due to the large bioload on your tank which deteriorates the water quality very quickly. Even if your tank becomes cycled you will have to triple your filtration from what you have now and you will still not be able to keep up with the bioload and poor water quality over time as these fish grow.
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Old 11-29-2018, 02:04 AM   #12
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I completely agree on that one. The filteation is not good. I had to bring them inside temporarily to repair the pond as it's filtration etx was messes up etc and animals picking them off. So its being upgraded at this time and they are being housed indoors till then.

I have been studing filters and full cycle capacity needs etc. Following along the pondguru very informative guy.

The goal is to have the koi back in the pond and move goldfish to the 29 gallon then switch the 10 gallon to a hospital tank

I digress

I am thinking of upgrading 29 gallon to a canister say a polar aurora 4 stage due to the kois bioload then I want to put a prefiltwr on the penguin 250 remove cartridge replace with bio material lile matrix or biohome gravel. Topped with purigen pad. And put that on the 10 gallon
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Old 11-29-2018, 03:02 AM   #13
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to lecture you. I know your situation. I'm just trying to say the bioload at this point and time is going to create a big pain in the a** for you especially on a tank that isn't cycled.

Personally, I'd shoot for 15x tank turnover per hour and feed every other day as opposed everyday if that's what you are doing.

I think a lot of water changes are in your future until you get that pond back up and running. Lol.
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Old 11-29-2018, 08:30 AM   #14
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to lecture you. I know your situation. I'm just trying to say the bioload at this point and time is going to create a big pain in the a** for you especially on a tank that isn't cycled.

Personally, I'd shoot for 15x tank turnover per hour and feed every other day as opposed everyday if that's what you are doing.

I think a lot of water changes are in your future until you get that pond back up and running. Lol.


No I would never consider it a lecture. Im in this situation because I rushed things. Wifey bought koi before the pond was done so i rushed it finishing it didnt go well now I'm teying to salvage it.

I look to you guys for knowledge so thays how i always see it.

In addition to tank turnover ive read/heard that you also want to have around 1kilo of bio media for every 50 liters of water in an aquarium stocked with koi goldfish or chiclids. I am thinking if i keep around to 10 to 15 turnovers per hour and up the filtration size and biomedia availability that should help fix it.

When doing back to back water changes do you mean in the same day or do 1 change per day till its back down?
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:36 AM   #15
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I think your idea about the bio media is good.

Yes same day back to back changes.
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Old 11-29-2018, 11:41 AM   #16
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I think your idea about the bio media is good.

Yes same day back to back changes.

I have a 5 gallon holding tank i can place the fish in while doing the water changes do you feel that is safer then doing it with them in the tank?

In Addition i think this is going to be what i do.

I plan to purchase a SunSun HW303 Canister filter.

I will fully replace all media in it, using, Coarse, medium and fine pads in bottom tray and putting as much biological filtration as i can fit in the 2nd and 3rd tray, and if there is space maybe a carbon permeated pad above that.

That should turn over water over about 13 times per hour and have loads more filtration then the crappy little HOB Penguin 250.
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Old 11-29-2018, 12:32 PM   #17
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You can do several 50% water changes back to back without removing the fish or you can remove the fish and do a single 90% water change.

I will say that the more media you add you will slow the flow or turnover output of the canister. Gotta find that happy medium.
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Old 11-29-2018, 12:49 PM   #18
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You can do several 50% water changes back to back without removing the fish or you can remove the fish and do a single 90% water change.

I will say that the more media you add you will slow the flow or turnover output of the canister. Gotta find that happy medium.

When i am doing the water changes would you suggest any gravel vacuuming or could that be part of the high values?
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:18 PM   #19
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I would do a light gravel vac....not real deep.
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Old 11-29-2018, 04:05 PM   #20
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I would do a light gravel vac....not real deep.

Thank you again,

I will work on a water change tonight, i plan on using the 5 gallon holding and ill do 90 % water change in both tanks
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