Pond Goldfish Dying! Please help!

[animallover09]

I noticed this morning one of my pond Goldfish practically dead in the bottom of my ~60 gallon pond. The pond is frozen on top but has a water fall that has been keeping the ice broke around it. I thought he was dead since he wasn't moving and there wasn't anything I could do, so I went to work. I came home and moved them inside since I noticed one of the other goldfish was swimming weird. I was told that goldfish can live in really cold water as long as there was a spot that air could come in. However, this is the first time I left them out in the pond during freezing weather and apparently they can't handle too cold of temperatures.

So, I thought this fish was dead but when I took him out of the pond, he was still moving...a little. And he seems bent. He doesn't swim. He just sinks to the bottom.

Does anyone know what's wrong with him and what I can do for him? I have medicines for fish if I need to treat him. I really want to save him. I've had him for a while.

 

[Greta1981]

I can't tell what the goldfish is, but if he's a comet he needs a minimum of 100 gallons of water per fish. If he's a true pond fish, he's a koi, and needs 1000 gallons of water per fish. Koi can grow up to 2 feet and may live 200 years.

May I ask how many fish you have in the 60 gallon? That's a very small pond for any goldfish at all, as one fancy needs 55 gallons of water per fish. I suspect the problems you're seeing are a result of severe water toxicity. How old is the fish? He could also be suffering from stunting, which occurs when goldfish are kept in too small a space. Their outsides stop growing but their insides don't, leading to a slow, sad death.

Your best bet right now is to keep him in pristine water--0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, low nitrates--until you can find a pond big enough for him. I'm sorry, I know you love your fish and that this is not the answer you want to hear, but it's truly the only possibility of saving him, assuming he isn't stunted.

 

[animallover09]

Oh gosh. I really wasn't expecting something that bad. I always knew that they needed a lot of space but I didn't think it was that much. I'm not sure what kind of fish he is. I always assumed they were called Common goldfish. I got them from my cousin who had a bunch in a pond.

I have 4. All the same size. I don't know the exact age of them since I didn't get them when they were first born but I have had them for about 4 years and they were that size when we got them.

I am so ashamed to say this but right now they are in a 29 gallon because that is the only spare tank I have. I have a 55 but my cichlids are in it and a 48 community tank. I was planning on keeping them in that until our temperatures get normal again. But even then, considering what you said about the amount of water they need, our pond isn't going to work.

Now I'm really not sure how to help them.

 

[Greta1981]

Most people don't know because pet stores don't. I'm sorry.

How big are the fish exactly? 10 inches? 12? However big they are, they definitely won't be doing anymore significant growing. If they haven't grown in four years--goldfish typically grow the most in the first two or three but then continue to grow throughout their lives, though at less accelerated rate--they're undoubtedly stunted. The only good part of any of that at this stage is that you don't need anywhere near the size tank you normally would. Their lives will be shortened, but the other three may still have some good years left in them. If you tell me how big they are, I can help you figure out the best arrangement possible for them.

As for the sick fish--the absolute only way it's going to survive, if this illness isn't directly related to stunting--is if you get it at least somewhat of a larger space and clean water. Goldfish produce huge amounts of waste. Do you happen to know your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels? I'm going to see if I can grab out community moderator, JLK, who knows more about goldfish than anyone I've ever met. She can give you further ideas and can also answer my question--I'm wondering if you could put just the one goldfish back in the pond, if it would be in the only fish. It needs a space of its own ASAP. Brb. Off to send her a message

 

[Greta1981]

Just PMd her. My immediate suggestion would be to do a water change ASAP. The sooner, the better. If you have an API test kit to check water levels, it would be great. If not, I suspect that just based on that many goldfish in that small a tank, that you have a severe water toxicity problem happening. Do you have Prime water conditioner? If you do, change 50% of the fish's water and refill with water that has temperature matched and double dosed for the full volume of the tank with the conditioner. Prime can be safely dosed up to 5 times in an emergency and this qualifies. Even if you don't have Prime, go ahead and do a temperature matched 50% change and let us know how the fish respond. And if you let me know their sizes, as I said, I'll do my best to help you figure out a workable solution for living arrangements. Good luck!!

 

[jlk]

Are they inside now? What is the temperature of their water right now?

The best thing right now is to gradually warm them up. Keep the lights off to reduce stress and keep their water very healthy as their immune systems are very depressed right now. As soon as you notice any activity from them, give them some of whatever their favorite food is or try something that most fish love such as defrosted bloodworms. They need to start eating.

An easy solution for them until spring (depending on their size) would be to pickup a rubbermsid-type storage tub (or two). 45-50g ones typically run under $20 at any big chain store.

Most goldfish can survive winters outdoors given sufficient pond depth and size and that some means are in place to prevent an area from freezing solid on the surface. This assumes one lives somewhere seasonal. Reasonably deep ponds freeze from the surface down as the ground acts as insulation for the water, making the bottom the warmest area. Running a fountain that pulls water from the bottom then sprays it out in some fashion would have cooled the water much faster and would leave a small pond susceptible to rapid temp drops and freezing solid.

Keep us posted on their condition and do not hesitate to ask questions!

 

[animallover09]

With my internship and the site being down it whatever is happening, its taking me longer to respond and I apologize.

My fish are approximately 5 to 6 inches in length.

Yes, they came inside yesterday. I used half of the water from the pond and tap water with dechlorinator. The temperature now is 56 degrees. It was colder than that but the water is now warming slowly to room temperature.

I tested the water, here are the results:
Ammonia 0.5
PH 8.0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5.0

Then I did a 50% water change:
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrate 0 (it looked a litter orange but not quite to the next level)
Nitrite 0

I realize that the tank is super small for their size but I should be able to do water changes daily it every other day. I have a python so it doesn't take too long.

I had Prime water conditioner but used it all. Now I just use regular water conditioner.

I noticed that they are like" shedding" this white film stuff. The photo is intended to show that. Its weird. Maybe it's just their poop which isn't solid since they haven't ate in a while. I read that you shouldn't feed them in the winter.

Anyways, his body seems to be bending a lot more. Its really weird because I just had a guppy die with the same thing (body bending) and no one on this forum could tell me what was wrong. All my other community fish are still fine, even my other guppy.

I'm pretty sure I can't save him. He can't even swim with his tail, he just uses his front fins. The other fish seem to be doing fine.

 

[animallover09]

Ok, I'm having trouble posting the photo. The app keeps crashing on me.

If I forgot to answer a question, just ask it again. That was a lot of questions. Haha!

 

[animallover09]

Haha! Ok, it posted anyways. Y'all must think I am crazy.

 

[Greta1981]

Hi
JLK is having trouble logging on for some reason. She asked me to post the following information for you: The fish need to be warmed up. As soon as they show activity, they need to be fed. What is your room temperature? If it's not 72 - 75 degrees, add the heater. The temperature must be increased GRADUALLY. No more than one degree every hour or two.

 

[animallover09]

The temperature has warmed up to 63 degrees. Ive been feeding them but the sick fish cant swim enough to eat. I feel so bad for it because he cant move his body. He just lays on the bottom. Why is his body bending? And should I put a heater in the tank? The temperature is slowing coming up to room temperature which is around 73.

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[Greta1981]

My understanding is that a bent body usually indicates severe nitrate poisoning. Do you know what your water parameters are right now? Even if you don't, I recommend an immediate 50% water change using dechlorinator and temperature-matching. In two hours, do another 50% change. If you can tell us your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels, that will help us try and figure out what else is happening with your fish.

 

[animallover09]

Here are the parameters. I wasnt able to do a water change yesterday because I was out of town. Although a 50% was done friday afternoon before we left.

Before water change:
Ammonia 1.0
Nitrate. 5.0
Nitrite. 0

After 1st water change:
Ammonia 0.5
Nitrate. 5.0
Nitrite. 0

After 2nd water change:
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrate. 5.0
Nitrite 0
PH 8.0

Why are the nitrates not going down? Should I do 75% water changes?

During the last water change, I fed them and to my surprise the sick fish was actually trying to swim. I hand fed him so he didnt have to struggle or try to beat the other fish to get some food. He ate right out of my hand. Although he could swim to the top but he couldnt really use his tail.

Also, I have been feeding them some of my cichlids pellets because they seem to really like those instead of the flakes I was feeding them. Do you think the food switch had something to do with this? Although the other fish are just fine.

If I did 2 water changes daily, does anyone think that he has a chance at living? When my pond thaws out, I can put the other 3 fish outside so the sick fish can have the tank to himself.

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[chevypride]

I don't know if cichlid food is good for goldfish... I was told they should only eat specifically goldfish food because there digestive track is different. I don't know much about goldfish but thought I would share my story (or perhaps my moms story?); she had a pond outside. Just a small 30-40 gallon or so, and she bought the 10/$10 feeder goldfish and dumped them in. 4 managed to survive until winter. Now living somewhere where it can be +20c one week and -20c the next week (okay. Not quiet that bad but almost), we went on vacation for a week and when we came back the pond was frozen. There was 2 or so inches of water on the bottom... With over a foot of ice on top.... My mom pulled up the pond and cut the bottom and got her fish out. Needless to say, I have no idea how they survived, but they did. So have hope they'll be okay

 

[Greta1981]

YOu don't want the nitrates to go down. NitrItes, yes, but not nitrAtes. Nitrates indicate your tank is on its way to being cycled.

Yes. Absolutely. If you can change his water twice daily, that will HUGELY help increase the fish's chances of surviving. As you can see, he's starting to respond. *fingers crossed!!*

Cichlids have different dietary needs (whatever those may be--never had a cichlid, but I know they're carnivores and likely their pellets have more protein in them than a goldfish can handle.) It would be better if you could feed the goldfish pellets. Flakes increase the likelihood of swim bladder problems because the fish suck in air when darting to the surface to eat them. for now, float the flakes in a bit of tank water for a minute before feeding, so they sink. But whenever you can, get either some Hikari gold pellets or some New Life Spectrum pellets. They're the most highly recommended goldfish foods on the market, aside from gels, which I've never used. Goldies love veggies and need diet supplementation, so if you can cook some carrots till they're very soft, or brussel sprouts, or broccoli, they'll love you for it.

Good luck! Please keep us posted. I'm really rooting for your fish to make it!

 

[animallover09]

Thank you for reassuring me! I womt feed the cichlid pelets anymore. Lesson learned. Haha! Ill try to go get some better food for them tomorrow. Ill try and get 2 water changes in daily or at least one.

Also, do you think it really matters if there is any air source? Like air stones. I dont have any in there and I dont have an extra pump. There are some bubbles that the filter is creating on the surface.

Another thing, how come people dont have to do water changes on ponds? I just cleaned out our little pond when the algae got really bad but that was like once a month or every other month. They did just fine for 4 years that way. Just wondering for when the time comes to put them back outside.

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[Greta1981]

Yes. An airstone would really help things a lot. Goldfish have huge oxygen needs. I have two in my tank. Quick example: I came home one day and found my fish looking dead on the bottom. Freaked out completely and tore the tank upside down, tested water, did everything to try and figure out the problem. Then I finally realized my airstone had come unplugged. Five seconds after I plugged it in--I swear, five seconds--they were up and swimming like normal again.

Definitely at the very minimum one 50% water change a day. More would be better.

I don't know anything about ponds, sorry. :/ My goldfish have always been in large (huge) tanks. That's a question you can PM JLK.

 

[chevypride]

Ponds have more or so there own ecosystem going. For a 60 gallon though I would do water changes. It's pretty small... My dads friend has a 1000g pond and he does do water changes every once and awhile. But the algae and everything in the ponds takes out the "bad stuff". Or at least that's what he told me. He does a water change in the spring to clean up from winter, and one in the fall to prepare it for winter.

 

[animallover09]

Ok, well I will pick up air supplies tomorrow too and let you know! Thanks again!

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[chevypride]

Adding extra filtration would be good to... A sponge filter or internal filter. They'd also produce oxygen.