Suggestions for Starting up my Reptile Collection

[Herps and fish]

Hi guys! I have also posted something similar to this in the FW and SW sections. New here, but certainly not to the exotic hobby! I've kept animals since I was 2 years old and don't plan to stop any time soon.

I'm currently at college right now, and once I am completed with school and have a steady business going (planning on starting a law firm), I want to have a big boom in my collection. I currently have a pufferfish and a pair of leopard geckos living with me, and a rabbit/dog/3 cats living back at home. However, before this I had TONS of animals - birds, monitors, snakes, racks upon racks of FW aquariums, a few reef tanks, a shark tank, and eventually I had to slim it down to my leopard geckos and then the puffer tank I set up last Christmas for myself, as money got tight and my parents didn't want to care for all of them. So don't flame me for wanting to get a bunch of animals at once, lol.

I am looking for suggestions of animals to add to my collection once I have the money and space - mostly cool-sounding tanks, biotopes, some cool fish (FW and salt) - everything. I had a huge list planned out, but eventually I toned it down a bit so that it would be a bit more simple. I'll list those for you guys, and I have pictures of what I would like them to resemble if anyone wants to see those.

I would like to start out with a turtle pond. I used to keep a turtle until I was 13, and then my turtle died and I never got another one. I am interested in getting some Spiny softshells - I know these guys are messy and generally hard to care for turtles, but I'm willing to take the risk. I am going to set up a 750 gallon stock tank which I believe is 8 feet across and 2 feet deep - how many could this hold?

The next outdoor setup (I live around 30 minutes north of the NC/SC border so it doesn't get very cold), will be 12x6x6 and house a pair of female iguanas.

Next up is a 12x6 outdoor yard for a sulcata tortoise.

Next comes the biggest enclosure I will ever set up - 70x55! This will have a large concrete pond in the middle and a large barn on the side and house a Nile Crocodile. I've seen these guys before, and I'm definitely going to get experience with working with very large crocodilians before I tackle one of these. I have seen them for sale in classifieds before.

On to the reptile room I plan on building. I will likely build a lot of glass/plywood cages and seal them off for housing the bulk of my pets. I'm going to list the specimens housed in each tank, by tank size. For the 4x1x2 cages, I plan on keeping: a breeding pair of fire skinks, a rough green snake, a california red sided garter snake, 3 sandfish, 4 long tailed lizards, a timber rattlesnake, a copperhead, a woma python, an angolan python, a rosy boa, and a children's python. Don't worry, I've got experience with hots and know how to properly care for them and all of the safety precautions when it comes to keeping them. I don't plan on a large collection of them either, just those two as well as 2 more snakes you'll see later.

Onto the 5x2x2 cages, I plan on: a bearded dragon (maybe a pair), a coachwhip, a dumeril's boa, a hog island boa, a hypo RTB, a jungle carpet python, an irian jaya carpet python, a borneo blood python, a red blood python, and a borneo short tailed/ball python hybrid.

Next comes the 2x2x3 arboreal cages. One will house a tokay, and the others will house a cuban knight anole, an emerald tree boa, a brazilian rainbow boa, and a manokwari GTP.

The next set of cages are 8x3x3's for large constrictors. One is going to house a green/yellow anaconda hybrid, one will house an african rock python, one will house a scrub python, and one will house a reticulated python.

There will be 3 very large cages - 9x4x4 - one housing a paraguayan red tegu and one housing a water monitor.

Next comes a 6x3x3 cage housing a savannah monitor. The last wooden cage is going to be 4x3x6 (tall) housing a breeding pair of green tree monitors, maybe even 2 pairs. They're going to have a zoo-style exhibit as they are one of my favorite reptiles, and they're going to be very well-displayed.

I visited a friend in England, and there they have RUBs - they are so much better than any bins we can get in the states. I'm going to have some of them shipped over in the 50 liter size, which is 13.5 gallons (I forget the floor space but it's nice and roomy). These will house: my baby fire skinks waiting to be sold off, a mexican red knee tarantula, a thai bamboo rat snake, a pixie frog, a fat tailed gecko, a tiger salamander, a leopard gecko, a tiger salamander, a corn snake, a gray banded king snake, a hognose snake, a honduran milk snake, a colony of hissing roaches, a colony of scarlet millipedes, and a piebald ball python. I'm not too fond of keeping snakes in bins, but these are pretty roomy and the snakes I have chosen to keep in these, will be regularly handled and/or are pretty small snakes.

Bear with me here, there are a few more cages to go over. The first is the 55 gallon paludarium that will house my pair of eyelash vipers. I may go with a 75 gallon but I'm not sure yet. There will be 2 30 gallons (not 29 gallons, 30's) one housing a colony of 6 fire bellied toads and the other housing a chinese crocodile lizard - both of them paludariums. I found a 4 foot in diameter by 3 foot deep stock tank that I am going to house a common snapping turtle inside of. The final cages are Exo Terra ones with the backgrounds and front facing doors. the 24x18x36 ones will house an african giant mantis, a waxy monkey frog, a colony of 6 phantasmal dart frogs, a crested gecko, a colony of 3 red eye treefrogs, a rudis chameleon, a peacock day gecko, and a colony of blue cave geckos (any idea on how many? I think between 3 and 7 is a good amount, and I do intend to try and breed these rare geckos). Whew, that wasn't so bad was it?

Any suggestions? I also have plans to turn a large bowfront tank into a paludarium, as well as a nicely-scaped 12x12x12 Exo Terra tank that I'm not sure what to do for inhabitants. I have absolutely none of these cages built or set up yet, so any cool herps you can suggest I will look into! Thank you!

 

[Herps and fish]

There are a few species I plan to add some time but i have not mentioned yet. One of those is an outdoor enclosure for the crocodile monitor, and I may drop a few grand on a single or a breeding pair of new zealand green geckos. I am also fond of the caiman lizard, banded rock rattlesnake, and breeding pairs/colonies of Anolia marmoratus and Anolis allisoni. These will likely all be purchased/acquired in the future though as they are very rare/expensive species, much more so than the others.

 

[Herps and fish]

I know some people on here won't be too happy about the snapping turtle choice, as with the venomous snakes, and with the crocodile, and with a few of the larger monitors, etc.

I am experienced in handling snakes much worse than those (eastern diamondbacks and moccasins are routine for me) and I used to volunteer at a reptile rescue where we handled 16 foot pythons on a regular basis - my snake choices are not just based on whether or not they're "cool", but first they must qualify as something I can handle easily.

The crocodile - I have handled alligators to 12 feet before, as well as caimans and a buddy's 6 foot Morelet's crocodile before, however those are nothing compared to a large nile crocodile. I am going to volunteer at zoos and reptile parks in order to prepare myself for such a large dangerous animal and further my understanding of proper handling techniques for such large animals. I understand the risks in keeping an animal like this, and I don't advise anyone gets one of these.

The monitors, I honestly don't understand why people are opposed to monitors, but lots of people are. So long as you can feed them a diet that doesn't make way for obesity and you can provide adequate space they are relatively easy to care for and are pretty long-lived.

The snapping turtle - I have thought about it, and thought about it, and thought about it some more and honestly these are turtles that shouldn't really be allowed in the captive trade. They occupy very large territories in the wild and only ponds are appropriate for these turtles. They are arguably more dangerous than some of my monitors or even the venomous snakes (on a good day).

Just wanted to clear the air and make sure everybody knows that I know what I'm doing with this, and am willing to learn a lot more than I know already.

 

[tabruzzi96]

most of this is unrealistic


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[Nils]

most of this is unrealistic


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Haters gonna hate

 

[Nils]

IMO this stock list is very interesting! Very ambitious person!

It will likely take several years to obtain these animals and build all the enclosures. Lucky that you have parents who will support this and hopefully help you along the way! I am looking forward to seeing it come together!

 

[Herps and fish]

most of this is unrealistic


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How so? I have decided to go with more bins versus larger cages, but honestly if you've got dreams and money, all of your dreams will eventually come true

There is someone that owns a 52,000 gallon tank all privately. He also owns a 15,000 gallon tank AND a large toucan collection. Anything is possible! He doesn't even have a crazy job either.

 

[Herps and fish]

IMO this stock list is very interesting! Very ambitious person!

It will likely take several years to obtain these animals and build all the enclosures. Lucky that you have parents who will support this and hopefully help you along the way! I am looking forward to seeing it come together!

Yeah, this is going to take a LONG time to all fall into place. I'm going to revert over to bins more than larger enclosures, and nearly everything will be DIY'ed in-house so costs are at an absolute minimum.

 

[tabruzzi96]

First off i want to be clear that i didn't mean to come off harsh or short I was actually at a restaurant waiting for my food and i wanted to type all of this and my food arrived and i didn't mean to post. in order to actually be able to maintain this collection you are correct that your first move is to switch all snakes to racks/bins. It not only will save you space and money but also time when it comes to cleaning. second for the softshell turtle you could get away with one at most in that size being at these turtles are capable of reaching lengths of 36 inches. If youd like to keep a softshell species I would suggest a chinese softshell specifically an albino since normals are almost impossible to find nowadays. They will run you about $200 but dont attain massive size. The iguana set up seems fine you could probably even add a male or go with a species of cyclora. However, the 12x6 for the sulcata is not enough space. If that is the amount of space you can allocated I would recommend a smaller species maybe redfoot, cherry head, or even a leopard. If you're set on sulcata I would say go at least 12x12 being as they are fairly active. Now for the nile crocodile. Im not entirely sure where you are looking for them but the fact is that you simply cannot own one of these. If you really want a croc I would look towards a morelet or some species of caiman.
Your water monitor cage should also be taller and larger too. They are not arboreal but do like to climb around and get on top of things to bask. I would also try to give the sav a larger area if you could. perhaps a 9x4.
When it comes to keeping bins youll have some trouble keeping so many different species on the same rack just because of temps. The snapper will also need more space but could probably squeeze in there if it had to.
Back tracking a bit here but... good luck finding a rock python... tough to come by nowadays "legally" because of the whole Lacey Act nonsense...
As someone who migrated from the reptile to aquarium world i can assure you I am not a "hater who is gon hate" more so just putting things into perspective.
Also as someone who was like yourself at one time and did a lot of planning youll find that you will be disappointed. While there is nothing wrong with trying to put together a list of things you'd like to own, don't get to caught up in trying to plan it all out or believe me you'll drive yourself crazy. Id like to wish you luck because this is alot of work but it can be done.

 

[Herps and fish]

I'm going to change a few things here.

First up, I think I will take a large aviary (like for macaws and cockatoos) and move the iguanas into this. I'll probably just go with 1 female (I'll probably take in a rescue) so I don't need a 12 foot aviary, lol that would cost like 5 grand.

Next, I'm not going to get the nile crocodile. I just don't feel like it's at all a good idea in any way. However, I'm going to keep a spectacled caiman, possibly a breeding pair, inside of an indoor cage - DIY'ed of course.

Honestly I would rather have a large yard, so most of the enclosures are going to be converted to indoor ones. I'm going to move the tortoise inside, but it's going to be a leopard tortoise - not a sulcata. Leopards commonly reach 20 inches and some have reached 26, versus sulcatas that reach 30+ inches and over 200 pounds. I'll build a tortoise pen that's 4x6.

The rough green snake (as with the long tailed lizards) will be moved into one of the arboreal wooden cages just because it's more of an arboreal species. The garter snake will likely be moved into a glass tank - probably a 55 gallon. The rosy boa is going to be moved into a bin.

Not going to get the bearded dragons - I'm not sure why I wrote those down in the first place.

I want to breed the hognose snakes so I'm going to build a 24x18x21-24(something around that height) wooden cage, and make it super naturalistic and try to produce some offspring.

I mentioned it earlier but I'll say it again, I've decided against the snapping turtle.

For the Exo Terras, it would probably be cheaper to just build the cages because they're almost the same dimensions. However I don't think it's a good idea to place dart frogs in wooden cages, so the dart frogs will get an Exo Terra. The chameleon will get a screen cage, because reflections tend to stress chams to the point of death.

For my large paludarium, I'm going to use a 90 gallon bowfront. I'm going to slowly add and watch animals, and I'm going to start off with a green anole, 2 long tailed lizards, a white's tree frog, a red eyed tree frog, a pair of bamboo shrimp, a colony of 6 african dwarf frogs, and a school of 8 zebra danios and 4 black skirt tetras. It's going to be about 50/50 land and water.

The 12" cube Exo Terra will house a trio of blue back reed frogs.

I can't justify spending 8 grand for a pair of geckos so the new zealand green geckos likely won't happen.

The banded rock rattlesnake will be in the same sized cage as the copperhead. The caiman lizard will get a 6x3x4 cage. The 2 anolis colonies will be kept in the 2x2x3 wooden/glass arboreal snake cages. The crocodile monitor will be in a 18x10x12 cage, outdoors.

 

[Herps and fish]

First off i want to be clear that i didn't mean to come off harsh or short I was actually at a restaurant waiting for my food and i wanted to type all of this and my food arrived and i didn't mean to post. in order to actually be able to maintain this collection you are correct that your first move is to switch all snakes to racks/bins. It not only will save you space and money but also time when it comes to cleaning. second for the softshell turtle you could get away with one at most in that size being at these turtles are capable of reaching lengths of 36 inches. If youd like to keep a softshell species I would suggest a chinese softshell specifically an albino since normals are almost impossible to find nowadays. They will run you about $200 but dont attain massive size. The iguana set up seems fine you could probably even add a male or go with a species of cyclora. However, the 12x6 for the sulcata is not enough space. If that is the amount of space you can allocated I would recommend a smaller species maybe redfoot, cherry head, or even a leopard. If you're set on sulcata I would say go at least 12x12 being as they are fairly active. Now for the nile crocodile. Im not entirely sure where you are looking for them but the fact is that you simply cannot own one of these. If you really want a croc I would look towards a morelet or some species of caiman.
Your water monitor cage should also be taller and larger too. They are not arboreal but do like to climb around and get on top of things to bask. I would also try to give the sav a larger area if you could. perhaps a 9x4.
When it comes to keeping bins youll have some trouble keeping so many different species on the same rack just because of temps. The snapper will also need more space but could probably squeeze in there if it had to.
Back tracking a bit here but... good luck finding a rock python... tough to come by nowadays "legally" because of the whole Lacey Act nonsense...
As someone who migrated from the reptile to aquarium world i can assure you I am not a "hater who is gon hate" more so just putting things into perspective.
Also as someone who was like yourself at one time and did a lot of planning youll find that you will be disappointed. While there is nothing wrong with trying to put together a list of things you'd like to own, don't get to caught up in trying to plan it all out or believe me you'll drive yourself crazy. Id like to wish you luck because this is alot of work but it can be done.

I just now made a new post in the thread "fixing" a few things, and most of them you addressed too (I was still typing mine when you posted yours). So it sounds like only one Florida softshell in there, that's perfectly fine because I really like the patterns these guys have and the derpy looking faces. You indeed can own a nile crocodile - there are no reptile laws whatsoever in NC (obviously federal ones still apply), and baby niles commonly show up on classifieds. However I have decided against one and for a pair of spectacled caimans. The sav will have a 9x4 cage I guess, and the water monitor will have an outdoor enclosure of the same dimensions as the crocodile monitor. Yes, the snakes will probably have to be kept on different racks according to temperatures. Backwater reptiles still sells african rock pythons, and I am good friends with the owner of a local reptile rescue and they occasionally get african rocks in, from babies up to adults.
Thanks for helping out!

 

[Herps and fish]

I feel like even with downsizing a bit and changing to bins, there's still just too many reptiles to correctly appreciate and care for. So, time to downsize - again! Here's a list:

-1 leopard tortoise
-1 spectacled caiman
-1 female green iguana
-1 spiny softshell turtle
-2 adult fire skinks (breeding pair)
-1 rough green snake
-1 neon blue california red sided garter snake
-3 sandfish skinks
-4 long tailed lizards (hopefully get them breeding)
-1 woma python
-1 angolan python
-1 children's python
-1 coachwhip
-1 dumeril's boa
-1 hog island boa
-1 red blood python
-1 Short tailed/ball python hybrid
-1 tokay gecko
-1 cuban knight anole
-1 emerald tree boa
-1 brazilian rainbow boa
-1 manokwari green tree python
-1 green/yellow anaconda hybrid
-1 dwarf reticulated python
-1 water monitor
-1 paraguayan red tegu
-1 savannah monitor
-2 green tree monitors (breeding pair)
-1 thai bamboo rat snake
-1 pixie frog
-1 pacman frog
-1 budgett's frog
-1 tangerine tornado leopard gecko
-1 gray banded king snake
-2 western hognose snakes (breeding pair)
-1 hypo honduran milk snake
~12 madagascar hissing cockroaches
~12 scarlet millipedes
-1 piebald ball python
-2 golden eyelash vipers (not buying them as a breeding pair, probably both females)
-1 chinese crocodile lizard
-1 african giant praying mantis
-1 waxy monkey tree frog
-6 phantasmal dart frogs
-3 red eyed tree frogs
-1 rudis chameleon
-1 peacock day gecko
-4 williams blue cave geckos
-2 Anolis allisoni (breeding pair)
-2 Anolis marmoratus (breeding pair)
-1 crocodile monitor
-3 blue back reed frogs
-All of the things listed for the 90 gallon bowfront tank (which will be in my office)

Well it's still pertty big but I really don't want to downsize anymore.

 

[scuba dude]

You got a lot of work to setup and keep everything running you have listed. Sounds to me like you will need to hire 1/2 the staff from sea world and Crocodile Dundee to maintain it.

 

[KKAY27]

I have 12 fw aquariums, 2 crested geckos, 2 leopard geckos, 1 pastel ball python and 1 sulcata tortoise and they keep me on my toes!! You might want to think about getting someone to help you! Because honestly keeping up with feedings and cleaning is alot for me with my few animals! I couldn't imagine looking after all them by myself! But I think you have a really neat idea! I hope you can have all that you dream of!

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[Coursair]

Disclaimer*** I ramble , Im sorry if I write a novel rather than just saying "cool" or "not cool"

I used to belong to the Northern California Herpetological Society. Back in the 80's when I was one of the ONLY female members.

Many members had fairly large collections. But speaking from experience, Most folks who buy a mish mash of exotics end up dumping most of them.

The best collections seem to have a theme or a focus. Easier to maintain, safer for everyone. But everyone has their own dreams.

Hots and Big animals require backup. They are a huge risk/responsibility. The more times incidents happen the faster the laws will change to outlaw exotics.

Our rule was any snake over 10' you don't open the cage without a second person around. Not unless there is a 2 door feeding slot.

Hots...locks on all cages and doors...view window in door to room.

Sounds extreme. But I've had to pull a pissed off Python off my boss. He had a 12' Burmese that was about to break his arm. My customer that was 6'5" almost got injured by his Python. He got cocky during a feeding.

It's good the OP has experience. I've managed 2 Reptile stores and helped run a rescue. We stopped selling Burmese Pythons and Iguanas because so many are dumped.

I had 2 club members almost die from envenomations. One from an illegal and rare South American Viper and one from his super lazy Gila Monster. The Gila owner got complacent. He'd had them for years.

It's nice you don't have laws yet.

Your wish list sounds like some I had. In the wild days I could have gotten a Cobra or a Gaboon Viper. But I did my research and decided to enjoy my other snakes.

I had 2 Crotalus oreganus males for about 10yrs. One went on to be a treasured display and breeding male in Ohio.

I got into mostly Desert stuff.

Uromastyx Egyptian, Ornate and Mali
Blue Tongue Skinks
Bearded Dragons

About 65 Tarantulas, etc....

Then I got my Falconry license...so I had to devote myself to that.

I love Dumeril's Boas. Almost bought one several times.

I loved my Rainbow Boas and my Arizona Mt Kingsnakes. At one point I think I had 20 ? Snakes.

Life changed. No creepy crawlies for me now. Aquariums and my Whippets are all I have time for.

There is video somewhere of me handling a massive Goliath Birdeater Tarantula. Only did it once...big fangs !



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[Autumnsky]

Sound advice above.

Let me say it is easy to decide to care for many many creatures. You usually need to earn money to buy and take care of them. If you are independently well off $$$$$ and don't need to spend 60+ hours a week working to build a lucrative career, paying off college loans and commuting to and from - often another 12 hours a week are possible, if you have family and friends then you need time for them as well.

Frequently collecting is the goal, not taking care of creatures so varied you would have an additional full time job, just feeding and cleaning enclosures. What if you get sick and can't care for them properly who will do that much work?

Those creatures can live 10's of years, ever consider having a lifetime companion person, child(ren)... Those things/people take hours of time in your life and day to day schedule.

My challenge to you would be to take it slowly and consider what will happen to these creatures in the event of an emergency (have a group or person(s) designated legally, & financially plan for them and for their futures, and get extra insurance).

Not a hater, just someone who lives life (for many years) with animals of many sorts and family and knows how many hours there are in a day. And sees countless pets abandoned, left with no owners (sick or died owners), become inconvenient, overwhelming, in the way of peoples lives, not good with children (yours or your friends or families), the list goes on and on. Family members work with shelters/rescues.

Pick something and do it excellently. Take it for what its worth to ya.

 

[Adi Hewitt]

I've seen this discussed in more recent forums so I just want to leave a message to this young man. I wish him well, however, as I doctor (which requires a similar amount of education, practical experience, continuing education and plain ole' 80 hour a week work sometimes (even after 25 years in practice) I do not see a possible way for him to even have more than one or two pets and still be fair to the pets which need love and attention. I know young people have dreams and he are rather detailed but what he is describing is either a personal zoo or being one of those 'collectors' who wind-up being arrested and getting in heaps of trouble. He insists on his ownership of a 'Nile Crocodile' which is illegal in the US due to laws in Africa which forbid their export to anyone other than zoo's or other licensed facilities and just because he sees them advertised in classified ads doesn't make them legal and because they are being advertised in classified ads they are probably babies and there is no sure way to prove they are really what the seller claims they are, 'Nile Crocodiles'. Nile Crocodiles are responsible for more human deaths than any other crocodile and I guess becoming a lawyer he will learn what you can and can not get away with.
I just want him to be aware that the practice of owning any animals in the way he wants to is considered 'collecting' and is a practice that is very discouraged in all states. Plus, the one thing I did not hear him mention at all is HOW WILL HE PAY FOR THE INSURANCE NECESSARY TO KEEP THESE POTENTIALLY DEADLY ANIMALS IN HIS HOME?
I wish him luck, however, this is a very dangerous post indeed as it could be giving others ideas.
Adi Hewitt, M.D.

 

[Fishlegend]

SounDs like good advice!

Although i think he's not on these forums anymore :/

 

[Autumnsky]

Probably found college and trying to be an attorney is expensive and time consuming.