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Old 04-21-2015, 08:18 PM   #1
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Caleb getting salty!?! No way..

Okay guys... I've sat and thought for ages whether I wanted to cross the line or not. I'll admit... Seeing the salty price tag is a bit frightening..

First things first.. I want this to be done as cheaply as possible.. Pretend we are working on a college budget P.S. Actually going back to college in July.

The tank:
10g gallon that houses a black moor goldfish.. Soon to be upgraded so the tank is mine. Don't worry it's still a baby goldfish, not stunted...yet...it's my brothers tank.

Now rules:

My only rule is when explaining things, talk like you are talking to a child. I know quite a bit of freshwater but my knowledge of saltwater is this: clownfish are pretty and that's a cool anemone. Live rock helps the tank. That's about it.

I plan on this just being a FOWLR. I dont want to jump to corals like I jumped to planted. Baby steps this time!

I started a saltwater thread a while back and thank you Hank for all the help. This time, I'm seriously going to put it into action.

Here's a list of questions that probably sound simple to answer but I'm starting at ground zero.

1. Filter- what's the best to use on a 10g tank? Not diving into sumps..

2. I have a heater for the 10g tank. Need to check if it is also applicable to saltwater.

3. Powerhead- do I need one?

4. Mini skimmer? Do I need one for a tank this small? If it helps with filtration I'm willing to invest.

5. Probably the most important- how do you Fishless cycle a saltwater tank? All you salty gurus probably know the best ways to do it!

6. Doing white sand. It's leftover in the bag from a freshwater tank. Will this work or do I need a special sand?

7. Live rock or dry rock? I'm clueless. My LFS sells live rock at about $8.99 a pound. Sounds a bit high but it's my only choice.

8. Lighting! No idea where to even start... Don't plan on corals till I get some major experience. Unlike the $5 freshwater plants I can test run, corals cost money :p

9. I'm only think like a goby and shrimp. Any suggestions welcome but I want to start cycling before we start talking critters.

10. Any other help suggestions are welcome! Like I said I'm a newbie to saltwater. It may be a week or so before I get the tank to myself and can actually start but Having info to study first is never a bad thing!


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Old 04-21-2015, 08:30 PM   #2
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Oh and how to do water changes. Keeping salinity confuses me.


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Old 04-21-2015, 08:33 PM   #3
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You know that ricola commercial?? Pretend they're yelling research instead of ricola you've got a lot of reading to do young man!

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Old 04-21-2015, 08:37 PM   #4
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You know that ricola commercial?? Pretend they're yelling research instead of ricola you've got a lot of reading to do young man!

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Oh I'm sure I do! The sad part is I've done quite a bit and look where I am still 😂


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Old 04-21-2015, 08:44 PM   #5
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Following for information on the saltwater tank I'll never have, and also because I want to see how this turns out.

Also you can fishless cycle a saltwater tank the same way you do with a freshwater tank! I know that much from working in the Aquaculture Research Center on campus.
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Old 04-21-2015, 08:50 PM   #6
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Oh I'm sure I do! The sad part is I've done quite a bit and look where I am still 😂


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Hahah..i hear you man. It's a big endeavor vs. what we're into.

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Old 04-21-2015, 08:59 PM   #7
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Nice a fowlr is as easy as FW once explained!
1.A HOB will be fine/even only a circulation pump if you go live rock.
2.Most heaters are.Best to make sure it is submersible so it won't get killed above the water line by creep.
3.this goes along with #1
4.You don't need a skimmer and it is easily manageable (water changes) for most tanks under 30g.
5.Salties don't like ammonia(it can work).
Most hang a cocktail shrimp in a net and then test like other fishless cycles without any input except testing.
Can take 30+ days.Can also use establish media if available.
6.Should be fine.
7.Choice is yours.
Dry is cheaper and PEST free.This is often the main consideration after price.
If you choose to go no filter and only circulation pump and water changes then at least 1lb a g of live rock is a good start(you want cultured{or at least to know if your rock is or not}).
8.Light as you please without corals.Remeber that this water has more solids in it(salt) that "cut light" quicker then in FW.
9.Probably best no fish in a 10 but a nano or single specimen can work.
10. Too much to generalize ,but we all have time!Get a refractometer if not going with digital($$$) for SG as it will be the most common/often test you make(possibly most important also).
11.ENJOY!
Hope this helps!
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Old 04-21-2015, 09:00 PM   #8
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First thought since were starting slow, what water will you be using? I understand ro/di is the way to go. I think distilled will work too, with tap being the least ideal option. I could be totally mistaken, just trying to help start the ball down the hill.
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Old 04-21-2015, 09:13 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by coralbandit View Post
Nice a fowlr is as easy as FW once explained!
1.A HOB will be fine/even only a circulation pump if you go live rock.
2.Most heaters are.Best to make sure it is submersible so it won't get killed above the water line by creep.
3.this goes along with #1
4.You don't need a skimmer and it is easily manageable (water changes) for most tanks under 30g.
5.Salties don't like ammonia(it can work).
Most hang a cocktail shrimp in a net and then test like other fishless cycles without any input except testing.
Can take 30+ days.Can also use establish media if available.
6.Should be fine.
7.Choice is yours.
Dry is cheaper and PEST free.This is often the main consideration after price.
If you choose to go no filter and only circulation pump and water changes then at least 1lb a g of live rock is a good start(you want cultured{or at least to know if your rock is or not}).
8.Light as you please without corals.Remeber that this water has more solids in it(salt) that "cut light" quicker then in FW.
9.Probably best no fish in a 10 but a nano or single specimen can work.
10. Too much to generalize ,but we all have time!Get a refractometer if not going with digital($$$) for SG as it will be the most common/often test you make(possibly most important also).
11.ENJOY!
Hope this helps!
Thanks!



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Originally Posted by TMRC Exotics View Post
First thought since were starting slow, what water will you be using? I understand ro/di is the way to go. I think distilled will work too, with tap being the least ideal option. I could be totally mistaken, just trying to help start the ball down the hill.

I have a small RO/DI unit for drinking purposes. Being a small tank i think I can manage using it for water changes.



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Old 04-21-2015, 09:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
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First thought since were starting slow, what water will you be using? I understand ro/di is the way to go. I think distilled will work too, with tap being the least ideal option. I could be totally mistaken, just trying to help start the ball down the hill.
Good catch!
I prefer RO/DI, but for a fowlr RO or distilled is great.
I have heard of some using tap and it working but am all against it myself.
With a pistol shrimp(or any invert) you are no longer fowlr and really reef?
Then at least RO,distilled or RO/DI.
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Old 04-21-2015, 09:20 PM   #11
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Fish only systems are just as simple as freshwater tanks. You are just making it harder than it is in your head.
1. If you have a HOB filter it will do. It isn't best, but will do. When you want to reach a different goal to better something in your tank, we can talk other things like ATS, refugium...whatever.
2. If your heater is submersible then it'll be just fine.
3. Yes you need a powerhead. Just a small one will do, you are just looking for CO2 exchange.
4. Tanks under 30 gallons do NOT need a skimmer. You can easily do larger water changes to address parameter issues.
5. Cycle the tank? Get a cocktail shrimp and tie it in some panty hose. Walk away. See you in a month!
6. Check what the sand is. Some people use pool filter sand...I think aggregate based is the way to go.
7. You just need porous rock. Macro, base, live...whatever fits your budget. Get one lbs per gallon. Same for your sand. Good to go.
8. If you aren't doing coral, then light doesn't matter. Put whatever makes you happy there.
9. The shrimp goby/pistol shrimp combo is a neat relationship. Might not see them much, but never seen it in a small nano sized tank personally. Just have to make sure they will bond up. Not all goby and not all pistol shrimp care about one another.
10. Saltwater isn't hard, so stop thinking it is. Get yourself a refractometer. One of the best items in your toolbox. Accurate salinity compared to a hydrometer.

EDIT: Just saw you say you have ro/di. You win the saltwater lottery. Less algae issues. I run my reef off of distilled water, but I'd be much better off if I had ro/di with my TDS at 0 like I did when I started it.
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Old 04-21-2015, 09:40 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Sniperhank View Post
Fish only systems are just as simple as freshwater tanks. You are just making it harder than it is in your head.
1. If you have a HOB filter it will do. It isn't best, but will do. When you want to reach a different goal to better something in your tank, we can talk other things like ATS, refugium...whatever.
2. If your heater is submersible then it'll be just fine.
3. Yes you need a powerhead. Just a small one will do, you are just looking for CO2 exchange.
4. Tanks under 30 gallons do NOT need a skimmer. You can easily do larger water changes to address parameter issues.
5. Cycle the tank? Get a cocktail shrimp and tie it in some panty hose. Walk away. See you in a month!
6. Check what the sand is. Some people use pool filter sand...I think aggregate based is the way to go.
7. You just need porous rock. Macro, base, live...whatever fits your budget. Get one lbs per gallon. Same for your sand. Good to go.
8. If you aren't doing coral, then light doesn't matter. Put whatever makes you happy there.
9. The shrimp goby/pistol shrimp combo is a neat relationship. Might not see them much, but never seen it in a small nano sized tank personally. Just have to make sure they will bond up. Not all goby and not all pistol shrimp care about one another.
10. Saltwater isn't hard, so stop thinking it is. Get yourself a refractometer. One of the best items in your toolbox. Accurate salinity compared to a hydrometer.

EDIT: Just saw you say you have ro/di. You win the saltwater lottery. Less algae issues. I run my reef off of distilled water, but I'd be much better off if I had ro/di with my TDS at 0 like I did when I started it.

Thanks hank this helps a ton I am of course doing some basic YouTube videos and websites for extra info but I trust more what comes from you guys.

I will need a new heater and probably going to beef up an HOB for extra circulation and media. Thinking aquaclear will do the job.


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Old 04-21-2015, 09:47 PM   #13
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Skip the beefing up of the HOB. Just get a small powerhead and be done with it.
Koralia's are great for the price. Once you get a magnetic powerhead you'll never want a suction cup on a tank ever again. And look...on sale...
Hydor Koralia Nano Circulation Pump/Powerhead
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Old 04-21-2015, 09:51 PM   #14
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Will this make for more water changes because of the lack of a constant cycle? Sorta like running an air stone in a small freshwater tank... No BB to hold a cycle. Correct?

Don't get me wrong that sounds like a great, simple, cheap, idea. Just want to clear that up.


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Old 04-21-2015, 10:05 PM   #15
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Will this make for more water changes because of the lack of a constant cycle? Sorta like running an air stone in a small freshwater tank... No BB to hold a cycle. Correct?

Don't get me wrong that sounds like a great, simple, cheap, idea. Just want to clear that up.


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Think he is saying not to beef up HOB(but still use one) AND use the hydor along with it for circulation?
BB will take up house on any surface it can,so beefing up HOB only add more surface in filter(should be plenty in tank?).
That being said it is my opinion that excessive bio media will yield higher nitrates in the end and only increase maintenance .
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Old 04-21-2015, 10:10 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by coralbandit View Post
Think he is saying not to beef up HOB(but still use one) AND use the hydor along with it for circulation?
BB will take up house on any surface it can,so beefing up HOB only add more surface in filter(should be plenty in tank?).
That being said it is my opinion that excessive bio media will yield higher nitrates in the end and only increase maintenance .

Ohh gotcha. Makes sense now!


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Old 04-21-2015, 10:27 PM   #17
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Your primary filtration will be your live rock and sand upon completion of the cycle. The powerhead will get circulation going in the tank and help with CO2 exchange. Your HOB will then help filter out poop and food that will not be allowed to settle by the powerhead. Then you can of course run whatever media in there you want besides a filter floss type like Purigen or whatever you want.
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Old 04-21-2015, 10:33 PM   #18
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Your primary filtration will be your live rock and sand upon completion of the cycle. The powerhead will get circulation going in the tank and help with CO2 exchange. Your HOB will then help filter out poop and food that will not be allowed to settle by the powerhead. Then you can of course run whatever media in there you want besides a filter floss type like Purigen or whatever you want.

Perfect 👌🏼 I know I have some extra ceramic media laying around somewhere I can use. Or just use colorful dish cleaners like Mebbid's.


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Old 04-21-2015, 10:38 PM   #19
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Don't use ceramics. The dish cleaners will work as long as there isn't any of that anti-mildew stuff in them. If it were my tank with the HOB, I'd have a purigen in there. I know they come in filters that will slide into a HOB, but I run mine out of a canister and haven't used them. Floss or sponge before it would only be to prevent food and poop from gunking it up.
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Old 04-21-2015, 10:42 PM   #20
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Don't use ceramics. The dish cleaners will work as long as there isn't any of that anti-mildew stuff in them. If it were my tank with the HOB, I'd have a purigen in there. I know they come in filters that will slide into a HOB, but I run mine out of a canister and haven't used them. Floss or sponge before it would only be to prevent food and poop from gunking it up.

I've used Purigen with success on my planted tank. Maybe a small bag of it on top after the pad. Don't you replenish/rejuvenate Purigen with a bleach solution or something?


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