Carbon Bad???

[douggiestyle]

Ok ive been using high quality carbon and a lot of it. like ive got 900g (4cps) in the tank 24-7

Is this bad?

why I ask is i am reading the back of a Kent Marine jar and it says only use 1cp per 100gal for three days!!! and afterwards use some type of trace element to fortify every thing I removed.!

Ive kept alot of different fish over the years (discus, african chiclids even had a mudskipper tank) albeit I have not had a fish in my house (other than on a plate) in 12 years. Is this some new revelation; a salt water only dilemma or have I been stupid and lucky over the years!

 

[Guest]

I think it is a little over kill, the amount you are using...

I only use about 4 tbsp for 55 gal... And it runs about 5 days and then I remove it. I do this approx. twice a month... I know there are some that use the same amount I use, maybe a little more 24x7 and report no ill effects from it...


What is the reason for using so much?

I don't think you need that much carbon...

 

[douggiestyle]

What is the reason for using so much?

I have a lot of cloudiness. I like the water polished.

 

[Biggen]

have a lot of cloudiness. I like the water polished

Cloudiness is normally a sign associated with bacteria blooms and not DOC buildup. In other words, the GAC won't have any effect if it IS a bacteria bloom.

why I ask is i am reading the back of a Kent Marine jar and it says only use 1cp per 100gal for three days!!! and afterwards use some type of trace element to fortify every thing I removed.!

This is crazy to me. Three days?? The most frequent I have seen people change their carbon is after a week. I change mine every two weeks. But three weeks?? Kent really wants to try and make a dime off their carbon I guess.

According to Dr. Timothy A. Hovanec of Marineland:

There is much written about the use of carbon in seawater aquaria. Some authors recommend against the use of carbon in seawater aquaria because carbon will remove trace elements. As with most situations in the aquarium hobby, the correct response to the claim that activated carbon removes trace elements from seawater is yes and no; mostly no. By definition, trace elements are those elements found in the ocean with a concentration of less than 1 ppb. These are elements such as cesium, chromium, cadmium, selenium, cobalt, silver, lead, tin, helium, lanthanum and cerium. For these elements, it has never been shown that they are really needed in the aquarium. In fact, adding some to the water would really be poisoning the tank. Further, these elements are rather insoluble at the pH of seawater, so activated carbon cannot remove them from the water. Thus the correct technical answer is that in the normal marine aquarium, activated carbon will not remove trace elements.

http://www.marineland.com/articles/16ActivatedCarb.asp

AND

http://www.marineland.com/articles/17RevisActCarb.asp

 

[douggiestyle]

This is crazy to me. Three days?? The most frequent I have seen people change their carbon is after a week. I change mine every two weeks. But three weeks?? Kent really wants to try and make a dime off their carbon I guess.

no for only 3 days out of a month. not replace every three days.

I have two trays of floss and carbon that I rotate every 21 days.
I never replace both at the same time. 21 day old carbon isnt doing much but it gets a lot of bacteria built up on it so i leave it in for another 21 days until the new tray is infested.

does this make sense. Ive always believed in only replacing half of the filter media at a time.

 

[Guest]

Carbon loses its ability to do good after a week or so... That is why they recommend changing it often... Most will leach back compounds into the water column when the usefulness is spent... Carbon IMO should not be used at all for biological filtration...but only for chemical filtration...

 

[Biggen]

no for only 3 days out of a month. not replace every three days.

Oh, ok.. Totally misread that. Makes more sense now...

Timbo2 wrote:

Carbon IMO should not be used at all for biological filtration...but only for chemical filtration...

Totally agree here. That is its purpose. You could actually do more harm than good using it for biological filtration if it is left in too long. Everytime you go to replace the carbon you would be essentially removing your biological filter.

 

[douggiestyle]

Carbon IMO should not be used at all for biological filtration

no intention on using it as biological filtration other than the fact that it is.

Most will leach back compounds into the water column when the usefulness is spent

cant seem to reson that out. if carbon did that then the carbon filters for ro/di systems would be also leaching back into the water.

so do you think i would be better to remove the carbon at the end of 21 days and just leave the floss?

 

[brndfrb]

What if you never use it?

 

[brndfrb]

What if you never use it?

 

[Biggen]

Most will leach back compounds into the water column when the usefulness is spent

cant seem to reson that out. if carbon did that then the carbon filters for ro/di systems would be also leaching back into the water.

The answer to this isn't always clear and it depends on who you talk to. I don't believe in de-absorption (under normal circumstances in the aquarium). All the reading and research I have done for carbon in the past says that it can only go through a de-absorption phase if the water's pH is switched extremely rapidly from one state to another (i.e. acidic to basic).

Again, Dr. Timothy A. Hovanec of Marineland writes:

De-adsorption is another phenomenon that is over-stated in the rumor mills about activated carbon. Again, it is an incomplete statement that is commonly used to described the process. It goes, in one fashion or another, as: don't use carbon because once its adsorption sites are full it will release, or de-adsorb, all the stuff it has adsorbed releasing a large amount of pollutants back into the aquarium. The implication in this sentence that activated carbon works something like a capacitor such that once at its maximum adsorption capacity, it instantaneously discharges all the bad things it has adsorbed is wrong. Carbon does de-adsorb, in fact, that ability is exploited for recycling precious metals. However, in a controlled industrial process, the quick release of the target substance is accomplished by switching the pH of the water. The basic process is to capture the target substance at one pH extreme (very acidic or basic) and then reclaim the substance by switching to the other pH extreme. As stated earlier in this article, these pH values are outside the normal range of aquaria. De-adsorption is not a process to be worried about.

Source: http://www.marineland.com/articles/17RevisActCarb.asp

so do you think i would be better to remove the carbon at the end of 21 days and just leave the floss?

Remove it and replace with new GAC since it will probably be exhausted by that time. I run mine 24/7 and replace every two weeks.

brndfrb wrote:

What if you never use it?

This is, of course, up to you. But I am definitely sold on GAC. Removing DOC's from the water improves biological filtration, keeps nitrates lower (indirectly), and helps to improve the water overall clarity and quality. Read the two links that I have posted and see what you think.

 

[wseaton]

Carbon loses its ability to do good after a week or so

Amen.

If you have a problem that the carbon is supposed to fix, it drastically loses it's capacity after a week or two.

Personally I prefer a back filter crammed full of floss and changing that every couple of weeks.

 

[douggiestyle]

That I have not tried.
it would certainly save me money.
but I am a stickler for a tank that gives the impression of not having any water in it.

as long as i know that using carbon 24-7 and in larger amonts (apx 1cp per 40 gal) wont hurt any of my "Friends" I am cool with the cost.

what are the organic conpounds that are removed by carbon?
i would dump 10 bucks of carbon into my tank per week if it removed my phosphates and nitrates.

 

[bizzybeas]

I have never added it to my tank, but I bought some and was wondering how to add it? I do not have a sump, but I could add it into my overflow box. What do you put it in?

 

[Guest]

I am a stickler for a tank that gives the impression of not having any water in it.

You have to remember that you are not talking about a FW tank... SW is supposed to have suspended particles to some degree in the water column.. That is the plankton and microorganisms that corals and whatnot live off of... IF you were to dive, you would see that the water isn't really that pristine.. This can have ill effects in the long run...No need for filter floss in a sw setup... I do not have any mechanical filtration such as sponges and floss, and my tank is so clear you can read a book through the 4 foot water column...

 

[douggiestyle]

I do not have any mechanical filtration such as sponges and floss, and my tank is so clear you can read a book through the 4 foot water column...

not my tank , but that is what i am used to - total clarity

 

[Biggen]

douggiestyle wrote:

what are the organic conpounds that are removed by carbon?
i would dump 10 bucks of carbon into my tank per week if it removed my phosphates and nitrates.

Carbon removes tannins and phenols from the water. Tannins are usually what give you the water that brown/yellow look while phenols can cause it to smell. Carbon will have no affect on the nitrates in the water. Carbon will also not remove phosphates from the water. Actually, some cheaper carbons will actually leach phosphates into the water. This can be avoided by purchasing good quality bituminous coal based carbons like Marineland's Black Diamond or Seachem's Matrix carbon.

bizzybeas

I have never added it to my tank, but I bought some and was wondering how to add it? I do not have a sump, but I could add it into my overflow box. What do you put it in?

This is why I am staunch believer is sumps. I put mine in a mesh bag and leave it sitting in the sump under the overflow inlet.

You have an overflow without a sump? Closed loop with an overflow? Anyway, you could put in in the overflow much like I put mine in the sump. Go to your lfs and buy one of those mesh media bags. Fill it up with GAC and put it in.

 

[douggiestyle]

Tannins are usually what give you the water that brown/yellow look while phenols can cause it to smell.

Definately has an odor though not bad, but I am using carbon.
my amonia, no2 and no3 dont even register so the tank is great. but i cant see from one side to the other. in another post I found out i have a diatom problem which seems to have resolved itself some what. I no longer have diatoms covering everything in the tank. but something is definatly clouding the water at unacceptable levels. again i can not see from one side of the tank to the other and NO my glass is not dirty. i can actualy see the stuff swirling like clouds. i put in a piece of brocli tied to some twine nand the twine turned brown in a few min.

This is why i have been using large ammounts of carbon. ive changed it twice in the last week.

 

[Biggen]

The aquarium will always have some odor to it. Although, in an established aquarium it will be a "beachy" smell. In an unestablished aquarium, the odor will smell like a foul sulfuric smell.

The way you are describing your problem, it sounds like you have a bacteria bloom in effect. Anything dead in the tank? You may want to consider doing a water change to see if that helps your problem.

 

[Guest]

How old is this tank?

I went through the same thing soon after the cycle of mine, and it took a HOT Magnum with the diatom cartridge with diatom powder to get it clear. And boy did it... so clear, you could read the small print of a contract through 4 foot of water.. After that, I haven't had it cloudy....

The following link is to sticky that was placed by CC.... It works flawlessly...

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=3250&highlight=diatom+filter