Cycling Help?

[Rozene]

Hey guys! So I have been having so much trouble with my Saltwater tank, been trying to cycle since October and it seems to never go right?

My Ammonia was at 0 last night so I dosed Dr. Tims Ammonia (2.5ml) as I have the OF Nano Tank (63L) (It has been 15 hours since ammonia dose)



PH: 8.0

My ammonia today is 1.2
Nitrite is 0.5 (I have yet to see this go to 0)
Nitrate: 100+ppm


I have the temp set to 30C and I dont run the light on the tank either.



I have tried bottled bacteria (Stability and Quick Start) (I live in Australia so sadly I cannot get Dr Tims easily or Fritz) and that actually seemed to completely stall everything.


Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Andy Sager]

Originally Posted by Rozene

Hey guys! So I have been having so much trouble with my Saltwater tank, been trying to cycle since October and it seems to never go right?

My Ammonia was at 0 last night so I dosed Dr. Tims Ammonia (2.5ml) as I have the OF Nano Tank (63L) (It has been 15 hours since ammonia dose)



PH: 8.0

My ammonia today is 1.2
Nitrite is 0.5 (I have yet to see this go to 0)
Nitrate: 100+ppm


I have the temp set to 30C and I dont run the light on the tank either.



I have tried bottled bacteria (Stability and Quick Start) (I live in Australia so sadly I cannot get Dr Tims easily or Fritz) and that actually seemed to completely stall everything.


Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

I'm assuming you are doing a fishless cycle.
The thing to figure out is the where your nitrates are coming from. Have you tested your source water for nitrates and what was the ammonia reading after you added the ammonia last night? (Higher than 1.2? ) If your source water is not where the nitrate is coming from, there is nitrifying bacteria present to convert the ammonia into nitrite and nitrate. If there is no life in the tank ( a.k.a. ammonia source) the bacteria bed has shrunk and is not able to handle immediately the amount of ammonia you added. The bed WILL grow, rapidly, to eventually consume it all. The key is that you need to keep that amount of ammonia daily to keep the bacteria bed from shrinking. Nitrifying bacteria beds grow or shrink to the level of the ammonia present.

If the ammonia level has come down since last night, when it reaches 0 again, add the same 2.5 ml Dr Tims and see how long it takes to reach 0 again. ( It should be faster than this time) You will need to continue this process of adding ammonia ( daily if necessary) until you reach a point where the ammonia level returns to 0 in under 24 hours. At that point, you need to add life to the tank to keep the bacteria bed going. Otherwise, the bed will shrink.

As for your nitrite test result, I suggest you have a local shop test your water to confirm your reading. Often, people have a problem differentiating between 0 and the first level on a liquid test. You may be reading a 0 as .5.

As for the nitrate level, it is a bit high for many marine species so once your ammonia level is settled, I'd do a major water change to reduce the nitrate level before adding your fish or inverts.

Hope this helps.

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

Can you post a picture of the tank?
Do you have lots of aeration?

Do you have any live or dead rock in the tank?
Live rock can help speed things up.

Did you use natural sea water or artificial marine salts?
natural sea water can also help speed things up.

Your pH should be a bit higher, sea water is normally around 8.5.

Your tank might be cycled already. As Andy said, change all the water before adding any livestock. Marine fish and inverts won't tolerate 100ppm nitrate.

[Rozene]

Thank you both SO Much for the help!

I should also add that I use the Red Sea Testing Kit and have the API Kit readily available (I checked the Nitrite with API and it came up as .25 on that test.


I didn't test the ammonia after I dosed it if I am completely honest, judging by what I have read online, it was supposed to be 2ppm. I honestly didn't realize that it shrinks and grows! I thought it just grew!!!

I also only have a skimmer so no other aeration for the tank, the tank has a low flow but I can make it higher if needed!

I also use natural seawater as I live down the road from the beach that doesn't have high volume of traffic! I only added one piece of live rock as well, the tank has artificial decor as I am wanting seahorses for this tank and my LFS doesn't have any good rocks (and its super hard to get ahold of macroalgea) where I am.

I'll def wait for the Ammonia level to level itself out and then do a 90% water change

[Colin_T]

Do a complete water change before adding livestock, not a 90%. You want nitrates as close to 0ppm for sea horses.

The protein skimmer should provide plenty of oxygen. If you have a power skimmer (runs off a water pump), these can strip plankton from the water. If you want plankton in the tank, avoid skimmers.

You should be able to find macro algae around the coast of Australia. Different types grow at different times of the year. Get yourself a hammer and cold chisel and have a look at the rocks in the water. Use the hammer and chisel to cut off bits of rock that have algae.

When transporting algae, don't let it get hot and avoid sudden changes in water chemistry. The best way to get marine algae to grow in an aquarium is to take a heap of sea water with you when you get the algae. Then do a full (or massive) water change using the new sea water and add the algae then. That way it won't be exposed to temperature, salinity or chemistry changes.

If you drag a fish net through weed beds, you can find shrimp and gammarids and put them in the tank for the seahorses to eat. You might even find a few tropical species where you are. They are moving south due to global warming and they are finding corals around Tasmania now, so Coffs Harbour should have stuff too.

[Rozene]

Thank you!!! Looks like I'll be going down to the beach more often


So complete water change, should I wait until this ammonia levels out or just whenever I get livestock?

[Andy Sager]

Originally Posted by Rozene

Thank you!!! Looks like I'll be going down to the beach more often


So complete water change, should I wait until this ammonia levels out or just whenever I get livestock?

At this point, until your tanks finishes cycling, there is no real reason to do the water change as the nitrate level is going to continue to rise. Once you get that ammonia and nitrite level back to 0 in under 24 hours, a water change and introduction of an ammonia source is the next step.
While the amount of ammonia introduced at the start is not really important, it's importance is that if you add a little, you will have a little bacteria bed and it's very possible to overload the system when you start adding life to it. This is not good for many species of fish due to the rise of ammonia again. If you create a larger bed by adding a larger amount of ammonia to start, you reduce this risk. The bacteria bed will eventually shrink to the amount of ammonia being produced by your livestock.

As for using natural seawater, make sure you get it on an incoming tide as this should be cleaner water than on an outgoing tide. We used to use natural water in our wholesale facility and the collection was done 1-2 hours into the incoming tide. This way, any "dirty" water was already washed away. On an outgoing tide, any and all pollutions in the water would wind up in your aquarium.

As for keeping seahorses, a low flow tank is the opposite of what is best for them. You should have a medium to medium/fast setup. You want a turnover rate of 10-20 times per hour. This can be done with either a HOB filter or a powerhead. You might want to read this from a seahorse breeding farm: https://seahorsesavvy.com/blogs/news...horse-aquarium

[Colin_T]

Originally Posted by Andy Sager

As for keeping seahorses, a low flow tank is the opposite of what is best for them. You should have a medium to medium/fast setup. You want a turnover rate of 10-20 times per hour. This can be done with either a HOB filter or a powerhead. You might want to read this from a seahorse breeding farm: https://seahorsesavvy.com/blogs/news...horse-aquarium

You can have good water flow through the tank but it needs to be calm enough so the seahorses can swim around. They aren't big swimmers as mentioned in the link, but they do move from place to place and if the current is so strong it pushes them around the tank, then it's too strong.

[Andy Sager]

Originally Posted by Colin_T

You can have good water flow through the tank but it needs to be calm enough so the seahorses can swim around. They aren't big swimmers as mentioned in the link, but they do move from place to place and if the current is so strong it pushes them around the tank, then it's too strong.

As it says in the link I posted, there needs to be places in the tank where the current is slower and the seahorses will find them.
A properly set up seahorse tank will have posts where the horses can hold on to just off the current stream so that the horses can see foods coming down the stream. The whole tank shouldn't be in the stream. This is also why small seahorse tanks are tough to do because it's harder to get those calm areas when you have such turnover. And when you use a slower turnover, water quality issues happen faster and the horses suffer.