Finally got it

[Alvarez]

Ok I finally got the tank and the stand... I haven't posted in a bit though. I posted awhile back and many said I actually didn't have to have a cannister filter. I now have the tank and stand and light and will be adding water etc and starting to cycle the saltwater tank.

The LFS said if I run live sand I cannot run a HOB filter I must use a cannister filter as the HOB will fail. He also said I should run an undergravel filter which will create a bed of good bacteria.

I know some of this is conflicting with advice here and I will need to choose whether I want a reef aquarium or crushed corral.

Whats the next step I want to learn the right way and get a thriving saltwater tank the way I learned well about cichlids and freshwater. (my cichlids are very happy and comfortable with no major mortalitys along the way)

I know I want live rock, a couple damsels, a couple perc's, a Yellow Tang, a Yellowtail tang, and a couple firefish...

Is the LFS right and HOB filters aren't compatible with sand? or can I get things started and move to a cannister later? Or must I get a cannister right off the start if I want live sand and live rock?

**EDIT**

Actually I had forgotten some of the original advice I was given and that a cannister or HOB was prolly not needed if I was using Live Rock.

Anyways I have the tank and the stand, I have all the patience in the world so I am in no rush. What is the next thing I should do. The LFS said 1st time through I can use tap water and Live Sand/Live rock. I thought you must always use RO water. What else will I need? Heater? Live Sand, Live Rock?

What should be my next step? I know about the shrimp decaying to get the cycle started... Should I get the Live Rock and Sand in there and then add the water and sand or should I add a certain amount of water and sand and then add the LR and LS? Should I get a heater on there ASAP also and what temp should it be?

 

[austinsdad]

Robert Fenner's "Conscientious Marine Aqaurist" book is a good start also. What sized tank we talkin' about anyway?

What are your live rock sources? Trying to gather info on when and what kind (cured or un-cured) will be available to you.

Hard to advise on sequences not knowing what's available to you and when. For instance, some cycle with uncured liverock and don't need shrimp pieces.

Got your lighting preference lined up already? Reef or fish only? Hard or soft corals? The book I mentioned above may ghelp you decide more.

I will need to choose whether I want a reef aquarium or crushed corral.

Not sure what you mean here. Reef can be diffrent kinds of crushed coral, sand, or be bare bottomed.

Most importantly now IMO, is not to buy anything else until you decide what type of tank you want and what is gonna live in it.

Good luck.

 

[tecwzrd]

My post Stock list and tips for maintaining your SW tank covers all the basic/optional equipment needed for a successful SW tank if you haven’t read it already.

Have you bought a refractometer or hydrometer? No mention of PH or test kits. A heater is a must so temperatures don’t fluctuate and a setting around 78-80 is fine for most fish.

How much lr were you planning on adding? If adding 1.5+ lbs per gal then the use of a HOB or canister isn’t needed since the lr will provide enough surface area for bacteria. I’d still look at getting a skimmer personally to remove DOC.

As austinsdad said if you are getting enough lr (80+lbs for a 55 gal) and if it is uncured then you wouldn’t need to add the shrimp since the die-off from the lr would get your cycle started.

If looking for cheap live rock checkout intmarinefish.com which has lr for as little as $3-$4 per lb shipped.

Couple of more places with quality lr:
www.liverocknreef.com
www.liveaquaria.com
www.tampabaysaltwater.com

For base rock checkout www.hirocks.com

If you do get an ro/di unit then I would fill up with ro/di water. If you are getting your ro/di water from a store then as long as your tap has 0 no3/po4 then you could use that for your first fill up to avoid having to cart so much water. A ro/di unit would be cheaper in the long run.

Your Gettin Started post mentioned a 55 gal. If that’s what you have then the Blue Tang is not recommended for that size tank. IMO one Yellow Tang would be ok along with your Firefish or other similar small fish.

 

[Alvarez]

The LFS said that if you want a reef tank you need Live sand and if you don't want a reef tank then you just go with crushed corral. He said if you go with crushed corral then you should go with a HOB filter and the cost is a lot less... once again I know that is conflicting with most advice here...

I would love to have the anemones, I know this means I have to get an actinic light to go with my normal florescent. I believe I have access to cured LR at a couple of my LFS. The tank is a 55 gallon non drilled tempered glass tank.

The anemones are not a must this is a project my son and I have started and his main fish he wants are Firefish, Tangs, and Damsels, I like the Perc's. I would like to go with a project that would be a good learning process for us.

 

[tecwzrd]

It sound’s like your lfs is giving old school advice IMO. CC, UGF, and hob/canister filters were the standard 10+ years ago but most people use sand, lr, and a skimmer even if it’s FOWLR and not a reef.

If wanting anemones down the road you need more then an actinic light to go with your normal florescent. You need VHO/PC/ and/or MH lighting in the range of 6+ WPG.

FWIW most cured LR from your lfs is fairly overpriced IME and contains very little life. Your best bet would be to get it online since your tank isn’t cycled yet. The only advantage to buying cured LR from your lfs is to not have to cure it before adding to a tank that already has fish.

 

[Alvarez]

My post Stock list and tips for maintaining your SW tank covers all the basic/optional equipment needed for a successful SW tank if you haven’t read it already.

Have you bought a refractometer or hydrometer? No mention of PH or test kits. A heater is a must so temperatures don’t fluctuate and a setting around 78-80 is fine for most fish.

How much lr were you planning on adding? If adding 1.5+ lbs per gal then the use of a HOB or canister isn’t needed since the lr will provide enough surface area for bacteria. I’d still look at getting a skimmer personally to remove DOC.
As austinsdad said if you are getting enough lr (80+lbs for a 55 gal) and if it is uncured then you wouldn’t need to add the shrimp since the die-off from the lr would get your cycle started.

If looking for cheap live rock checkout intmarinefish.com which has lr for as little as $3-$4 per lb shipped.

Couple of more places with quality lr:
www.liverocknreef.com
www.liveaquaria.com
www.tampabaysaltwater.com

For base rock checkout www.hirocks.com

If you do get an ro/di unit then I would fill up with ro/di water. If you are getting your ro/di water from a store then as long as your tap has 0 no3/po4 then you could use that for your first fill up to avoid having to cart so much water. A ro/di unit would be cheaper in the long run.

Your Gettin Started post mentioned a 55 gal. If that’s what you have then the Blue Tang is not recommended for that size tank. IMO one Yellow Tang would be ok along with your Firefish or other similar small fish.

I keep hearing massive conflicting advice on the blue tang/hipostus?/yellow tail... Most people say 40 gallons for it and it grows normally 6-8" but in a 55 gallon it will never reach 8" One of our local restaraunts has had one in their 55 gallon with LR for over a year now as well. I told my son I thought I had read here that 55 gallon was too small for it.

No I don't have any meters or test kits yet, I haven't even gotten the salt... I felt it best to come here and find out good advice before I move anymore forward.. My son got his birthday money and decided he wanted his saltwater tank finally. I sat him down and told him it may take awhile to get any life in there but we can start it if he really wants to spend his money on it.

 

[tecwzrd]

Well I’m sure for a short while you could be happy confined to a jail cell of 10 X 6 but eventually you would become uphappy.

A Blue Tang will still reach 10+” in a 55 gal which would barely be large enough to turn around within the tank. They are very active swimmers also and need the space to get their exercise.

Granted they only grow 1”-2” per year on average but I wouldn’t recommend getting a smaller one with the plans to upgrade tank sizes in the future since cost/space is often prohibited.

Lastly you should try to stick to around 10”-12” max total length of adult fish for your 55 gal or you will always be fighting with algae and no3 levels and a blue tang would max out your tank so it’s kind of silly to only have one fish to enjoy since there are so many other smaller fish that work well in a 55 gal.

 

[austinsdad]

I felt it best to come here and find out good advice before I move anymore forward.

... and get the book too IMO.

 

[roka64]

I will need to choose whether I want a reef aquarium or crushed corral.

I am almost done removing all of my CC. IME, it gets dirty fast, needs to be vacuumed, and it limited my clean up crew, making for more cleaning...

 

[Marc118]

Id also suggest against the tangs. As much as I want one my 60g isnt big enough.

You can get a lot of good looking fish like dwarf angels, clowns, basslets, and many more to make the tank look great.

 

[Alvarez]

The Blue tang and Yellow Tangs can go in a 75 gallon with no problem though right? if this is the case I will just take the tank back up there and pay the extra $100

My son won't be happy without any tangs.

 

[tecwzrd]

Only $100 more for both the tank and stand? Not a bad deal The extra width (18”) is helpful also if you want a sump.

A 75 is large enough for one or the other but not for two tangs.

 

[Alvarez]

Only $100 more for both the tank and stand? Not a bad deal The extra width (18”) is helpful also if you want a sump.

A 75 is large enough for one or the other but not for two tangs.

So I could have a yellow or Blue Tang but not 2? That is weird I was also told that a 55 gallon could house 5 yellow tangs. but no more... Seems their projection was way off eh? hehehe

I had a feeling he was wrong but we just wanted 1 of each. At least with a 75 he can have a Yellow tang with no worry of overkill in the bioload.

 

[tecwzrd]

It’s not just the size that those two adult tangs would attain (16+”) but also aggression issues in that small of a tank.

Stock is determined by a ton of factors but tank size is the most limiting. The “general rule” is 1” of fish per 5 gal but following that rule explicitly seems quite limiting to most aquarist. I feel new SW aquarist should stick to that rule closely and should only slightly exceed it once enough experience is gained.

Of course the other determining factors for stocking are the quality of filtration, pwc schedule, and the type of fish you get.

If you have a skimmer, 1.5+ lbs of lr per gal, and are performing 15+% pwc each week those things allow you to slightly exceed the “rule”.

By buying thinner longer fish like clowns, damsels, wrasse, gobies, ect… and not a fatter or messy eater also helps extend that rule slightly ie: not a puffer, trigger, lion, eel, ect…

The use of a sump to extend total water volume also helps with keeping your nh3/no2/no3 in check.

Total length/height of the tank also has to be considered ie: a 55 gal tank gives you roughly 11”-14” of adult fish length but that doesn’t mean a Dog Face Puffer or Sailfin Tang which reach about that size should be attempted.

Main thing to take into consideration is that SW doesn’t exchange oxygen as well as FW does and greatly overstocking a tank will lead to suffocation if power is out longer then 4 hours. A generator or battery back up is highly recommended if slightly overstocking since all the filtration in the world is completely useless without power.

 

[Alvarez]

Ok I dunno if these are good prices or not but I went back to the LFS and talked them into the original deal I had going. They sold me the 75 gallon and Pine Stand for $255. This is only $5 more than what I paid for the 55 gallon except it didn't include the light. (The light was useless to me though as it was a LO florescent and I woulda thrown it out anyways.)

I have it in my living room ready to set up after work now!

 

[Marc118]

Sweet man, do you plan on a skimmer or sump/fuge? Any reef down the line?

 

[tecwzrd]

$255 for a 75 gal tank and stand sounds pretty reasonable.

Have you or your son considered the Kole Tang or Bristletooth Tang?

 

[Alvarez]

we will look into those tangs.. my son has done all kinds of reports on tangs so I am the one crash coursing hehehe.

now that we have the 75 gallon I def would like to get a good light and try for the reef tank. I know its more expensive to start but cheaper in the long run. so I need the water the salt a heater and I need to order some live rock... do I need a certain amount of water in the tank before adding live rock also good salinity levels as well right?

Sweet man, do you plan on a skimmer or sump/fuge? Any reef down the line?

Which is better I read Micah's post and figured I should go with the HOB skimmer... Price is not a HUGE object I want whatever would be best for some beginners and will help my soon to be fish thrive and live long lives.

 

[seaham358]

Alverez your LFS is def giving you Old School advice and tecwzrd is giving out some good advice. Read, read and read more before jumping in with both feet.
If you plan on corals then take things real slow and plan on spending around $30-50 per gallon on the set up. SW is not a cheap hobby and if you want a nice tank you will have to spend some money.
A skimmer is a must have on a reef. Also a RO/Di unit may be something you will need of your tap water is not up to par.
Its good to see you here asking questions... IMO a Hippo in a 75 long term is not a good idea especially for a new reefer. These fish are Ich magnets and can become sick and infect the whole tank. So if you really want one you should wait till the tank is mature and you are comfortable with the tank.
keep asking questions....

 

[Alvarez]

The thing I really need to know... I am reading like crazy trying to learn and gonna get the book as well. However I am confused... How do you add the stuff to your tank? Do you add the sand then a certain amount of water then add the dechlorinator then add the live rock? Or do you add the sand and live rock and then add the water then the dechlorinator etc...

I was worried about adding the water then the LR and having too much... perhaps I fill it 1/3 ?

Any help is appreciated... Thanks guys! I am learning lots!