Fish died week after setup!

[anm]

I have a 20 gallon hex tank. I set it up a little more than a week ago with live sand. A couple days later (now exactly one week ago) I got two fish (yellow-tailed damsels I think) that the fish store characterized as starter fish good for cycling the tank. Also added about 20 lbs of live rock.

Everything seemed to be going fine. Fish seemed active all week. Yesterday morning I took out the Penguine power head and put in a Koralia nano and Koralia 1. Yesterday evening, one fish was on the bottom on its side. This morning both appear to have died.

I have a several years beyond indicated expiration date Wardley test kit. According to that, Ph is 8.2 (79 deg), Ammonia is 0.25 ppm, nitrite undetectable, and nitrate at 20 ppm. Specific gravity is between 1.021 and 1.020.

I assume the tank could not have cycled within a week, right? So perhaps the test kit (b/c it is so old) is giving incorrect results and the ammonia or nitrite levels are actually higher?

The only other thing I can think of is that the change out of the pumps caused the problem. While there is clearly water circulation with the Koralias, they don't break the surface like the penguin. Does this mean that there is not enough air exchange (esp. since this is a hex tank).

Any thoughts?

Is the live rock in danger of dying off? (Much more costly to relpace than the fish...).

Thanks!

 

[intimatecple]

ignore the lfs as far as using fish to cycle your tank. It is cruel to the fish and will kill some fish....read the articles on FISHLESS CYCLE. As far as your test kit....buy a new one. Pumps probably had nothing to do with the deaths, unless the are leaking electricity. Your LR will have some die off but that is normal during the cycling period. I am sure others will chime in for anything that I may have missed or stated incorrectly.

Welcome to AA...Please read....ask questions and enjoy...Many Experienced and helpful friendly members here!!! Enjoy the darkside!!!!!

Barry

 

[klubvibez]

contrary to what the live sand bag says, there's no way your tank could have cycled in a week, simply by adding live sand. your fish died because you didn't cycle the tank properly. get a new test kit and wait at least a month before you add any more fish.

 

[melosu58]

I agree The fish died of ammonia poisoning because your tank was not cycled. This is one of the reasons you should not cycle with fish. Read this and cycle the fishless way and you`ll be doing it the humane way.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/articles/articles/3/1/Cycle-your-salt-tank/Page1.html

 

[919]

I agree The fish died of ammonia poisoning because your tank was not cycled. This is one of the reasons you should not cycle with fish. Read this and cycle the fishless way and you`ll be doing it the humane way.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/articles/articles/3/1/Cycle-your-salt-tank/Page1.html

I whole heartily respectively disagree...

I have 6 healthy happy damsels living ammonia in excess of 3.0 with no problems. I would suggest getting your livestock from a different source; clearly the fish store you are patronizing does not sell quality specimens.

Remember no quantifiable evidence has ever been produced that a fishless cycle is any better than a fish cycle. In all reality those fish would have more than likely died in any tank.

 

[klubvibez]

you're putting your fish through a cruel experience. no one said fishless cycle is better, but its a heck of a lot less cruel.

 

[melosu58]

.

Remember no quantifiable evidence has ever been produced that a fishless cycle is any better than a fish cycle. In all reality those fish would have more than likely died in any tank.

What you dont seem to realiize is that neither one as far as the cycle is better than the other. The difference is the humane way vs the unhumane way. That is the only difference. You have no evidence to prove otherwise. Even your old quote from doctor fenner was proven that he has changed his mind and admitted he was wrong.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

What you dont seem to realiize is that neither one as far as the cycle is better than the other. ....

I think 919 realizes this, but what's the fun to agree with all of us?! Some folks find causing problems much more enjoyable than giving unbiased advice.

While I agree that cycling with fish isn't the way to go, assuming your test kit is correct and you were truly dealing with 0.25ppm ammonia, I have to agree that your fish were more than likely not in too good of shape to start with. That small of an amount of ammonia in that short of time shouldn't bring down a fish that quick... unless it was on its last leg/fin to start with. There's no way to say one way or another what killed the fish... sometimes you just get unlucky. But cycling with it sure didn't help it's chances..

 

[anm]

Thanks all. Very helpful info.

 

[melosu58]

I think you get the point anm. I would read our article on fishless cycle and start over on the cycle. You`ll need to remove the fish you have though to a QT or ask your LFS to hold them. Good luck.

 

[drummev]

Good video on YouTube on fishless cycling:
YouTube - Cycling your Aquarium: Chapter Three: Fishless Cycling (v.2)

 

[anm]

So as I mentioned a week or so ago, the 2 fish I had died. Instead of dropping in a shrimp as suggested here, I let the dead fish remain. 3 days later they disappeared! I noticed some of the sand had shifted and saw a thumbnail-sized crab that must have come w/the live rock. Not sure if the fish dissolved while I was away from home for a couple days or the crab got to it...(haven't seen the crab since that day).

In any case, I've tested the water regularly and have not seen any ammonia or nitrite readings. Nitrates are constant at 20. These have been the readings since right after I setup the tank and added the two fish two weeks ago.

The 20 lbs of live rock came from a tank at the lfs and was out of water for no more than 30 mins. Any chance that my tank won't see an ammonia spike? Or should I add that shrimp now just to make sure?

There was some sort of invert life on the lr (haven't had the time to figure out what it is--brownish w/a dozen or so "arms"). A few days ago, the arms seemed to be out stretched and would quickly pull in momentarily when I turned the lights on, but now they seem retracted all the time.

Thoughts on what I should do? Obviously don't want to add any fish until I'm sure its cycled.

Thanks!

 

[klubvibez]

i think its a good idea to add some ammonia yourself. make sure its pure ammonia. windex wont work.

 

[bawel]

Actually if you already got the LR from LFS and it's cured, you hardly would see the ammonia spikes high like the rest who got the uncured LR, which means the LR has been out of the water for sometime. However, you still have to keep testing the water. Once your Ammonia and your nitrite readings is 0, do about 33% PWC for the first PWC to bring the nitrate down. I don't think you want to add the shrimp since you already have the dead fish, cause last time I added Shrimp and my ammonia never spiked either.

Time for some experts to chime in as well. IMO, I think you should give us the readings of the ammonia and nitrite, once it's 0 for both for about a couple of days, do PWC.

 

[anm]

Sorry--should have been clearer. I did the first test a week after setting up the tank. The ammonia and nitrite readings were 0 and have never gone up. Nitrates have been about 20 and may have increased slightly.

If it has, in fact cycled (or didn't need to b/c of the lr), then I should be able to add a cocktail shrimp or fish food flakes and see just the nitrate levels rise with no material change in the other measures, right? Any other way to verify that the cycle is complete?

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

...then I should be able to add a cocktail shrimp or fish food flakes and see just the nitrate levels rise with no material change in the other measures, right?

That's correct! Even if the rock wasn't cured originally, with the amount of time that's passed with lots of ammonia sources, it's probably "live" now.