Help! My tank is dieing...grrrr

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BonnieC

Aquarium Advice Activist
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
116
Location
Boise, ID
Well, just as you all told me, the tank would nuke. Just to refresh, bought a 10g nano tank on wed. (5 days ago) The tank was pre-stocked with everything. It had cycled and been running for 6 weeks. I, the newb, bought it from LFS who told me what to do and take care of it. I can name a million things wrong with the whole scenario but the two biggest problems...

Tank had EIGHT fish in it. I had no testing kit other than hydromter because they were sold out. I was told not to worry because they'd test it for free.

On Saturday, I had the feeling something was off by fish behavior so took a water sample to store and everything was perfect (I saw the results myself). The guy had me top the first top off with saltwater (purchased there) because the tank was lower due to move. Came home and one clown fish died (after I JUST had it tested). Called LFS who blamed the stress of moving on fish death.

Big Problems NOW...

I come home today after work and I can just tell nothing is right in the tank. Run down to LFS 5 minutes before they close to get water test (couldnt go earlier cuz I was working). The fish guys were gone so stuck with newbies who know not much more than I do. From what we can see...Nitrates are now somewhere between 5 and 10. It was really had to tell. It was a yellowy orange.

The PH was all the way at the end, I think 8.8? (forgetting numbers now) So some other guy came up and did another PH test he said was for higher (whatever that means) and the color didn't even match the chart (was dark blue).

What would cause the PH to skyrocket like that?

Also, came home and did a salinity test with hydromter....it's 1.026 and a half!! (It was okay after the top off)

What's happening here? The worst problem is, I dont know what to do. I can do a water change and add feshwater, but of course they only gace me one gallon of fresh water to put in. (I have 5 gallons of salt)

I dont even know what to do for PH and OF COURSE they had nothing I could buy for saltwater. Only had PH buffer for freshwater.


I just got told to come back tomorrow after 11...ummm yeah, Im guessing my tank will be gone.

This really sucks becasuse Ive done everything this guy told me to do. Im guessing without being able to test it there isn't much I can do. I feel so horrible! Any suggestions to save my tank?
 
I don't see anything critical in the readings. A bump here and there. Nitrates are commonly 5-10ppm. 20 or below is acceptable. Salinity can easily be 1.024 or .025. Like I said, a bump. PH is high.

Get a 5 or 6 gallons of mixed and aged SW on standby and do some water changes over the next few days as needed. 15- 20percent at a time. Add a half gallon to a gallon of fresh water to bring the salinity down. Not too fast. .01 or so a day.

The clown dying could have been a number of things happening, but i see nothing in the water readings that would have done him in. What kinda fish are in there? Said there were 8?

Also, top off with fresh water only. SW raises salinity.
 
Get rid of all of the fish except 1. That will give all the fish the best chance. Also 1.026 salinity isn't bad, it's actually normal seawater salinity. No idea about pH. Your gonna need test kits for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate at least ASAP.
 
I took out a gallon of water and added the freshwater. Waited 5 min and tested. Salinity is now 1.027.

Waited 5 minutes and it was low....just did it again and needle is all the way at top, even tried flicking the thing to make sure needle wasnt sticking. Got that reading 3 times then it went to normal range then back to top again. WTH, is it just broken???
 
Good idea! Check for ammonia and nitrite to make us all feel better for the heck of it.

You might consider a refractometer. Can't rely on those swing thingies! Stop adjusting since the readings are all over the place.
 
Oh the fish...

It had 2 oscellaris but one died.
1 Yellowfish damsel
2 firefish gobies
1 cleaner blue neon goby
1 yellow striped cleaner goby
1 yellow clown goby (who, while eating, mostly just sits...his color went from yellow to totally see-through now, Im guessing he is next to go)

It also has two feather duster works (who today are both closed up)
It has a tiny yellow sea cucumber (LFS swears that variety is ok because he is so small)
Various crabs and snails who are even acting wierd. One bigger hermit picking on a smaller hermit and I see one dead snail shell. Turbo snail one of the smaller ones are at very top corner of tank and not moving which is unusual for the,
 
The ammonia was zero....nitrates were 5-10 (cant tell since both colors look so close)

We tried the nitrite and it was a wierd teal green color. It didnt match anything on the chart


Any ideas what could make PH jump?

How wierd is it that it goes from all being great to this over 2 days.
 
Woah. I recommend all of the fish go except either the Clown Goby, or a Firefish. Probably means it was too high or tested incorrectly. This is why having your own test kits is imperitive.
 
I totally have the plan to get a new tank and do this right. This board has already taught me sooo much. But I really dont want this to be a waste of $300 and dont want my fish to die!
 
Not till 11 and I have to work till 6. I left the water sample and Im gonna call during lunch break.

I know there are too many fish. I didnt have a clue when I bought it and they SWORE it was fine on Sat (I went back for that water test because of what I read here).

They said the fish were okay because they were very small (which in part is true. The two clowns were only about 1-1.5 inches.)

Anyway, the plan was that half the fish were going back on thursday (I get no credit for any of them *sigh*) I plan to get bigger tank asap and have been a researching wild woman. I know the type of tank I want/need but having a **** of a time finding one. And of course I have to cycle it anyway. Was hoping to keep the 4 alive till then. Didnt want this whole thing to be a giant waste of money. :(

Ill be curious to see if th LFS does anything. Ive followed all of his directions and I feel so bad. Guess time will tell by morning.

(Also, of course they dont have refractometers either. People just dont have saltwater tanks in Boise! LOL) Gotta order one online. Tank too. :(
 
Return the cuke for now too. No way I think a cucumber should be in a 10g tank. Looks like you got decent filtration (rock and skimmer maybe??) and very small fish. Not bad on the nitrate readings IMO.

In my past, feather duster's health was a pretty good barometer of my tank's health. Just can't see any obvious reason for your problems.
 
Makes sense, one feather duster is closed (and he's usually wide open) and I THINK the other one is dead today.

There is a ideo of the tank which I took on the 2nd...
YouTube - Video 1.AVI

It has a whisper filter and seeded live rock
 
High nitrates by themselves aren't going to kill anything, so no worries there. pH normally doesn't skyrocket up, so I'm guessing maybe testing error - you said they were newbies doing the testing.

Your salinity concerns me. As far as putting in 1g of freshwater in a 10g tank... that's a pretty big shift all at once. If your salinity was 1.027 before that "top off", putting that much freshwater should've dropped it to 1.024. That's way too big of a jump all at once, and if you see problems with your fish in the next day or two, I'd guess this was your culprit. The other issue, as others have mentioned, is the hydrometer. Those swing arm things just are a bugger to use and get a consistent reading. I know your LFS is out of refractometers, but I wouldn't make any major salinity changes using a hydrometer.

If I read your post right, your LFS gave you more bad advice by having you top off with saltwater. You want to replace the water that has evaporated with freshwater... not saltwater. Reason for that is because the salts don't evaporate... just the water. So if you top off with saltwater, you just end up slowly increasing the salinity.

It doesn't really sound like your tank is crashing, but it doesn't sound happy either. Part of it is just learning the ins and outs... like testing and topping off daily with freshwater. And it's just so much harder with such a small tank - even if it were stocked reasonably. It sounds counter-intuitive, but it really IS easier to start with a big tank than a small one.

They said the fish were okay because they were very small (which in part is true. The two clowns were only about 1-1.5 inches.)

This is just plain not true. Even 8 tiny fish in a 10g SW tank is just plain too crowded. Period. I know you know that, but it's just so so wrong that this shop thinks 8 fish in a 10g is OK.
 
I found a local reef club online and a guy with a small store out of his house was nice enough to call me. He's quite pissed at the LFS. His thoughts...

Most of what you said. He thinks my switching the gallon of salt for fresh will kill the worms. He suggested I remove them and separate them because if one dies Ill have a big amonia spike and more problems. He thinks the fish MIGHT be able to take it.

I removed the worms and yep, one was dead. I was afraid to remove the cucumber. If he dies, my tank gets nuked but if I stress him out, it gets nuked so Im kinda screwed there.

BTW, prior to my change, most of my snails today are dead. The turbo is way up in the corner clearly trying to survive. The one living worm was on teh ground, feathers out but flat on substrate so Im pretty sure he was dieing.

Blue Neon Goby (normally active) is barely moving. Yellow cleaner goby lethargic too but not as bad. Clown WAS swimming okay but freakin damsel is pecking him and now he's doing that gasping thing (though light). Damsel seems okay but seems to have a light "film" over him as well as the powerhead, filter, etc. Water itself looks clear.

The guy on the phone doesnt have a guess as to what's killing things. Thinks the PH is probably due to error but wouldnt kill them anyway. The nitrates while not good, wouldnt kill them. My water exchange might kill them, but they were already dieing.

Any ideas whats killing things??


P.S. He just suggested that my first top off be saltwater because tank was 1/4 low but then do freshwater after.
 
Any ideas whats killing things??

Just a guess, but could just be stress. Also could be low oxygen levels. I don't recall seeing anywhere what temperature you're keeping your tank at. And do you have a separate thermometer on it, or are you just relying on the heater thermostat? Ideally, you want something in the 78-80 area.
 
Just a question to Kurt and Ray but do you guys think that at least 5 fish need to be removed immeadiatley if there are still 9 fish in there? The overstocking would be the root of the oxygen level problems if they are the cause and less fish in the tank would reduce the stress of the others espeacially if the more aggressive ones are removed. (The Damsel)
 
I think there are 7 fish now since one of the clowns died. I guess there could be a stress issue with that many fish, but I'm not seeing any nitrate issues from the overstocking. If the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels are fine, and they are all such small fish....

If anything get rid of the damsel and the two fire fish. Nothing scientific there, other than the damsel might get meaner with so much company in such a tight space.

Are we sure there is an oxygen problem?

Have you tested for ammonia or nitrite? just for the heck of it and peace of mind.
 
That's just something being thrown around ATM. How much surface agitation is there? Cause that would be affecting the oxygen levels, if that's actually our problem.
 
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