Help with end of fishless cycle/transition to adding fish

[francis]

Can somebody give me a quick lesson on how I transition from the end of my cycle to adding fish? ^^

I understand that after the fishless cycle ends and I am at 0 amm, 0 nitrite, and 0-20 ppm for nitrate my cycle is complete but my question is...

If my ammonia is a 0 how soon until the good bacteria begin to starve?

If I add only say a shrimp + 1 fish initially, won't they not provide enough waste? = good bacteria starving?

Also, I saw something regarding coral dips in order to get rid of any bacteria and such, does such a thing exist for fish? I am planning on quarantining in the future but I was wondering if products like this worked well too

[Sarcothelia]

You need to keep slowly adding a source of ammonia or eventually the bacteria will die. Honestly, I cycled my tank with nothing but live rock and the occasional feeding pellet. Hitchhiker coral somehow lived, I guess ammo never spiked.

But yea. Give it a week, and if ammo/nitrites are still 0, give it a try. Also, freshwater dips are good for new fish. I actually don't QT my fish because I trust my lfs to do that (silly, I know, but these guys don't mess around) but I do give them a freshwater dip, that's it.

Add a fish first before you add a shrimp, as they are hardier. My first fish was a clownfish and I just overfed to keep ammo sufficient. Then I added a clean up crew and moved onto corals a few months later (though hitchhiker coral on initial live rock somehow lived).

Good luck, and try a freshwater dip for new fish (though not if they are sensitive fish to begin with, I wouldn't give a sickly looking fish a dip)

[francis]

So you know how in order for my cycle to complete at 0 ammonia 0 nitrites and some low nitrates, I need to add fish immediately? How you say to wait a week but doesn't that mean the good bacteria will die off? I guess what I am asking is will my good bacteria die off really quickly after my cycle completes and I need to add fish?

Freshwater dip = just put the saltwater fish in some freshwater? :T

[Rosenweiss]

I've heard freshwater dips can actually be very stressful and dangerous to a fish. Most people consider doing so VERY carefully, and only when the fish is sick.

You shouldn't need to dip new fish, just acclimate them properly, and QT if you can.

[francis]

Thanks I will definitely do that then.

Could you offer some clarification about the transition from fishless cycle to adding fish though?

I am worried of starving the good bacteria by not putting ammonia in (to protect the fish of course)

[Rosenweiss]

It's a fine line, really. If you add one fish, you may have some die-off of bacteria, but it should grow back to meet the bioload of the others you'll add later. With saltwater it's really best to add the fish slowly, so I don't think you'll get any flak for adding just one fish for now. Just don't add one now and then a whole school at once in a few months, you'll probably see a mini-cycle.

Any other thoughts?

Oh, and I'd feed the bacteria at least 1ppm of ammonia per day until the day you get your fish. Then do a PWC right before going to get your fish.

[Mr. Crabs]

Originally Posted by Sarcothelia

You need to keep slowly adding a source of ammonia or eventually the bacteria will die. Honestly, I cycled my tank with nothing but live rock and the occasional feeding pellet. Hitchhiker coral somehow lived, I guess ammo never spiked.

But yea. Give it a week, and if ammo/nitrites are still 0, give it a try. Also, freshwater dips are good for new fish. I actually don't QT my fish because I trust my lfs to do that (silly, I know, but these guys don't mess around) but I do give them a freshwater dip, that's it.

Add a fish first before you add a shrimp, as they are hardier. My first fish was a clownfish and I just overfed to keep ammo sufficient. Then I added a clean up crew and moved onto corals a few months later (though hitchhiker coral on initial live rock somehow lived).

Good luck, and try a freshwater dip for new fish (though not if they are sensitive fish to begin with, I wouldn't give a sickly looking fish a dip)

IMHO, I don't think this is good advice.....maybe your experiences, but I really would hesitate before following any of these procedures and principles.

[Gti_Leo]

i don't think alot of peopel realise, but once a cycle ends and the bacteria may start to die off, that die off will be a bacteria sourse to keep the rest of the bacteria fed and alive

[francis]

Originally Posted by Gti_Leo

i don't think alot of peopel realise, but once a cycle ends and the bacteria may start to die off, that die off will be a bacteria sourse to keep the rest of the bacteria fed and alive

ahh thank you that does make sense, so I suppose 1-2 days without bacteria is okay. I was actually going to go with the advice to do 1ppm and simply do a pwc before adding fish, maybe waiting overnight so everything settles.

Also, mr crabb. which part of the post do you not agree with? is it the freshwater dipping part? or the waiting 1 week etc, thanks

[Rosenweiss]

Thanks for the rep. =] Good luck with your stocking.

[francis]

Thank you too! (: Right now I've moved onto whether my tank can survive in the long run with a hob skimmer, I was looking at the reef octopus 100F I think it was called. But this also causes problems because my tanks hood contains light and filter taking up all the space. Havent figured out what to do with that yet

[Rosenweiss]

how big is your tank?

[francis]

its a 40 gallon. I was thinking of moving my lights out and just leaving my in hood filter, and put the skimmer where the lights are.

Then hopefully get some smaller more direct lights

[Gti_Leo]

a 40g with a built in hood filter wow i thought those only came in the small 5g kits.

if you plan on going with a reef system you're probably going to have to remove that hood for a different lighting unit so that filter will have to be removed. might as well get an HOB skimmer and an HOB filter if thats the case

[francis]

ahh i see, so scrap the hood filter and hood lights.

I was looking at the reef octopus hob skimmer , any recommendations for the filter then? And do I need any additional filter besides that then?

[Gti_Leo]

if reef its best to go with a natural filtration, so micro algaes and live rock. a hang on refugium would bee a good filtration alimg with a skimmer, the reef octopus are some of the best on the market and you shouldn't have an issue with them

[francis]

Hang on refugium? I know what that means but thats totally different from just a hang on mechanical filter? So would I be looking at 3 pieces of equipment? (filter, refugium, and skimmer?)

[Gti_Leo]

no you wouldn't really need a filter, you could have one for mechanical filtration, but you'd have to rinse it off. a refugium with chaeto and micro algaes will eat any organics that the skimmer has not pulled out and no build up of organics in a filter pad, causing nitrate spikes

[francis]

What is chaeto? and micro algae is just a type of plant right? Are you saying I can just have a hob skimmer, along with just a refugium (a container with simply a return pump) and thats enough?

[francis]

Also, how would I get the particles and such out without a mechanical filter? Sorry for all these questions I'm just getting excited to see what I need to run my tank