I guess I have the darn SW bug...

[Biggen]

Ok ok. I am probably overloading myself as it is with my two FW tanks, but I really would love to try SW. Right now, I am set on a mini-reef design using a 20 gallon. Yeah I know it is small, but I really don't want a lot of fish in the thing. Maybe a few fish and then stock the rest of it with inverts. Just want to keep this small...

Ok now to my question. I know the rule about 1.5 lbs of LR per gallon. But my question focuses on the sand. Do I need LS or can I just use normal marine sand that sells in the LFS. Or can I go to the beach and get beach sand? I live here in PCB FL so I have access to the beach. Could I go out into the water and collect the sand in the water? Would that be live sand? Also, I have read that I need around 5"-6" for a DSB. This correct?

I feel like a newbie again...

 

[reefrunner69]

Do I need LS or can I just use normal marine sand that sells in the LFS.

You can use a marine sand that you find in the LFS, but beware they are proud of that stuff. I recommend an arogonite based sand, rather than silica, but silica is also acceptable. I haven't looked yet, but Walmart is supposed to be carrying the Southdown sand, they may not carry the same regional distributions that Home Depot did, might be available ere in FL, which is only right considering it is processed in Ft Meyers.

Or can I go to the beach and get beach sand? I live here in PCB FL so I have access to the beach.

You can do this, but I don't recommend it, there are many pollutants that can be on beach sand or close to a public beach or marina.

Also, I have read that I need around 5"-6" for a DSB.

A DSB is not required for a successful reef, in a small tank like a 20, if you do go with a DSB, you probably don't want to go much deeper than 3-4".

 

[d9hp]

YAY! it got you!! I agree with Kevin, dont get the ocean stuff, it has things you dont particularly want in it.

 

[Biggen]

Sounds like a plan guys. I will probably start setting this up within a couple weeks. Going to take my time on it to make sure I get everything right...

 

[loganj]

You realize that the bite of the SW bug is usually irreversible and that you are now doomed to an eternity of keeping reef tanks? I started with a 10g and one little clownfish. Now, there are 6 SW tanks in the house. Remember we warned you when you're up at 3 am staring into the tank with a flashlight .
I'm guessing you're going to use a 20 long? I think that would be better than the high. I have a 20 high and I wish I'd set it up using a 20 long instead. For the sandbed, if you have a friend with an established reef tank, you can get a cup or two of LS sand from their tank and use it to seed your sand. I'd stay away from the commercial bagged LS like Aragalive and others. It's expensive and, at best, only has some bacteria...none of the critters you'll need.

 

[Biggen]

Hey Logan,

I knew eventually I would get he SW bug. But I want to go small. Don't have the room or money to have a huge setup in the house. Besides the wife wouldn't like another big setup.




I am definitely getting a 20 long. I don't know anybody around here that keeps reefs so I am outta luck getting a lot of local help. But I have you guys for that.

So you say I shouldn't go with any kind of LS? Just LR? Should I then just get normal marine sand. Kevin suggested arogonite based sand or even Southdown sand (if I can find it). Would you agree?

I guess no matter what kind of sand I got, with LR in the tank, the sand would eventually become a part of the LR over time...

BTW, I went ahead and ordered a Seaclone Protein skimmer and another Maxijet Powerhead. Also bought a hyrdrometer. Getting there steadly, but surely.

 

[reefrunner69]

So you say I shouldn't go with any kind of LS?

I'm pretty sure what Logan meant, was not to go with the prepackaged LS, as it is not true LS. True live sand is alive with worms and critters, which can all be seeded with a few cups from an established sand bed. If you ask for LS and they ask how many pounds and start digging in a tank, that's good to have (average should be 2.00 per pound), but the bagged stuff just has some bacteria on it, and even that is debatable.

the sand would eventually become a part of the LR over time...

Nope the sand will remain sand, but it will become LS

I went ahead and ordered a Seaclone Protein skimmer

If it's not to late, I suggest cancelling this order, I think for around the same money, you can do a better skimmer. I personally use a CPR bakpak 2R skimmer on my reef and have been pretty happy with it's preformance, but Seaclones have a bad track record. If you do keep the seaclone, look around the web for the modifications possible to make it more efficient.

 

[Biggen]

I'm pretty sure what Logan meant, was not to go with the prepackaged LS

Ahh I got ya. I am really debating about whether to invest in LS. Like you said, with the LR, over time, the sand will become LS. I think just investing in around 40lbs of LR may be the best way to go. Especially money wise.

If it's not to late, I suggest cancelling this order

Hmm. I had read so many good reviews about this product too. That is weird. Well I can't cancel it now, but I can easily resell in on ebay. One of the big reasons I purchased it was because it is HOT design. I won't be using a sump and the HOT looked like a good alternative.

 

[loganj]

That is exactly what I meant on the sand. Does your LFS have any reef tanks going? If so, see what it'd cost you to get a cup or two of sand from one of them to seed the rest of your sand bed with. I also agree that the SeaClone isn't the best skimmer. I use one on my puffer tank, but that's a 29g with only one fish. Another skimmer you might want to look at is the Aqua C Remora with a MJ 1200 PH. Marine Depot had these for about $164.00 with free shipping.
Although the SeaClone will pull some skimate from the water, they don't have much contact time. If you look at one while it's running, you can see that the air/water comes up the center tube in a very tight swirl. It then comes over the top and a few bubbles drop down the outer tube an inch or two. Then look at one of the better skimmers and you'll see that the bubbles fill the tube from top to bottom. This gives much more contact time and a better bombardment rate.

 

[d9hp]

Man, you really are getting into this Biggen, congratz. I also heard some good reveiws on the seaclone, but as you can see not many experienced reefers have any kind of good things to say for it. I bet you can find southdown, I found it at WalMart, I just need to go and get it.

 

[Biggen]

Well, shucks...

I guess I stick with the Seaclone for the time being since I have it on the way. I can always sell it back on ebay I suppose.

I'll check with my LFS so see what two cups of their sand would cost. I guess I will start checking on sand prices as well...

 

[loganj]

Any skimmer is better than none at all. It's best to ask around and see what folks have had good luck with before you spend the money though. I bought a few things also that had good reviews and was disappointed with them. You can bet, if it can be used on a SW tank, someone here has tried it. I expect that you'll be able to use the SeaClone as long as you keep the bio load reasonable and don't feed too much. It will help with water quality. One thing you might want to do is build a surface skimmer for it as most of the DOC's will be on the surface. I have been intending to do that with mine and haven't gotten around to it yet. I believe that would net a considerable increase in performance. You'll have to really watch the water level in the tank though as it wouldn't take much for the skimmer to run out of water using the surface skimmer. JMHO.

 

[Biggen]

Thx for the advice logan.

Called the LFS and they are willing to scoop me out some of their LS from the coral tanks. He tried to sell me some LS in a bag, but I wasn't falling for that...



I will call up Home Depot and see what that Southdown sand runs.

The plans for my tank is to have a mostly invert load. Probably will only put in 3-5 fish max. Everything else will be inverts, crabs, urchins, stars, etc... I think these are as pretty as their FO counterparts. This should help out the skimmer as the bio-load will be small.

 

[d9hp]

3-5 fish is a too many for a 20. The rule in SW is about 1 inch per 5 gallons. So you could get two 2 inch fish.

 

[ConanTheLibraia]

A piccolo is a pretty small HOB skimmer. I heard about it through one of the guys at nano-reef.com who had one on a 10 gallon I think. I am looking into this, has anyone had one of these or heard any good reviews?

 

[d9hp]

I want one too, but have never seen one.

 

[loganj]

3 small fish maybe...it's really easy to overdo it with SW. All I have in my 20H is one Bangaii Cardinal. My coral prop tanks have 1-2 damsels each (20 longs). I'd talk to fishfreek or reefrunner about a stock list before I bought anything. Just to be on the safe side...

 

[Hara]

I just bought the aquamedic turbofloater multi, it is pretty awesome for a skimmer in its class. Also, it can be used as a hang on or an in sump model.

 

[Biggen]

Thx for all the help guys. I'll shoot for 3 small fish max... Everything else will be inverts...

 

[d9hp]

Good deal.