Just starting out, bad water problems

[mellofone]

I decided to plunge into getting myself an aquarium. However, it looks like I am starting off on the wrong foot. I purchased a 29G kit with power filter, heater, and some odds and ends. In the kit included a "water conditioner" kit that was supposed to take care of any type of water, good or bad. I only wish

I assembled and filled the tank with plastic plants and a rock formation or two and let the tank settle and filter for about 2 days. I had a very basic test kit that hinted at the pH being high, but nothing to worry about. At the local pet store I stumbled upon some 5 in 1 test kits that test nitrate, nitrite, hardness, alkalinity and pH.

I apparently have very hard water that also has a very high pH level, 8.4 at least since that's as high as the test strip goes.

I have some clown loaches and cycled through 3 angle fish, which only one has survived. A placo and some smaller midas cichlids which seem to be doing fine. However, the water is starting to cloud.

The tank is only a few days in and its a bit early to tell, but are chemicals the answer to my obviously "bad" water? The pet store recommended some "Wardly 3 in 1 water conditioner," but I am unsure of where to start.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[jcarlilesiu]

don't use chemicals. try putting some peat moss in your filter where the carbon will go. That will naturally lower your PH with out stressing the fish, but may turn your water a little "tea colored" at first.

Try to stick with drip style test kits they are more reliable if you are using strips

You need to be testing ammonia. I dont think you have cycled your tank yet or "aged" it... which will explain the fish loss. You have a very odd combo of fish in the tank also. Cichlids are pretty aggressive, and those clown loaches can get huge. Im not sure about capatibility problems, but i would assume the cichlids are harrassing your angels?

The white cloud that you are seeing is bacterial blooms. If you haven't changed water yet, you need to change out as much as required daily to keep ammonia and nitrite to a bare minimum. This will take a couple of months to get the tank established.

Read up on the stickies at the top of this forum and you should be clear as mud.

 

[mellofone]

Any specific suggestions on test kits?

 

[Guest]

Aquarium Pharmecuticals test kits are good.

 

[jcarlilesiu]

Most people here use the Aquarium Pharmacutical Master test kit

here

http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsU...quariumpharmaceuticalsfreshwatermastertestkit

once you get all these readings back, most imporatantly at this time is ammonia and nitrite we should be able to give more help....


p.s. welcome to aquarium advice... we are here to help

 

[mellofone]

Ok, I got that test kit. Good or bad, here is what I got:

Low pH - 7.6 (since this was the highest I went to the high pH)
High pH - 8.2
Nitrate - 5
Nitrite - 0
Ammonia - 2

I also bought a Python as per everyone's recommendation. That looks like it will save A LOT of headaches and a lot of cursing

 

[joannde]

You need to do a water change immediately to get that ammonia down. ammonia becomes more toxic at higher pH's (and your's is high, like mine). Keep it below .5ppm but even that will damage the fish's gills I believe.
Keep doing water changes until you get those levels down. Cycling with fish is pretty much all about water changes. You're going to be extremely happy you bought that Python.
Best.

EDIT: found this chart for you showing the "safe" levels (ie: not lethal) of ammonia for given pH and temperature

Water Temperature
pH 20C (68F) 25C (77F)
_________________________________
6.5 15.4 11.1
7.0 5.0 3.6
7.5 1.6 1.2
8.0 0.5 0.4
8.5 0.2 0.1

(reference http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html
interesting article which you should probably read as it explains the nitrogen cycle)

 

[mellofone]

How much do you suggest I change? I've read 10-15%. I'll do whatever it takes.

Should I treat the water chemically before adding it? I know I have very hard water to start...

 

[rich311k]

Change at least 50%, 75% would be better. Dechorlinate the new water and get the temp reasonably close to the temp in the tank.

 

[src]

Change 50% right now. Wait a few hours, test again, then change another 50% if the ammonia is still high (it will be). Be sure to add dechlorinator to the water you add. When using a python, different people add it at different times (before, during or after the fill). Personally, I add it before so I can't forget to add it later.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Don't worry about changing the pH. Your level is fine. A stable pH is better than a perfect pH. If you are worried about your angels, I have a pH of 8.4 and have 4 beautiful angels thriving in addition to German Blue Rams. Other than that, everything else has been covered.

 

[TomK2]

As for the pH, your fish are not likely to be wild caught. Captive raised fish are typically well adapted to the local pH. AS FF said, stable pH is most important.

Angelfish are hardy fish, but not hardy enough to cycle a tank with them. Since you have enough fish in the tank to cause an ammonia spike, you only have three otpions. First, lots and lots of water changes to keep the ammonia down. A python realy helps with this. Second, get some colonized biomedia from another FW tank to jump start the bacterial growth and limit the duration and peaks of the ammonia and nitrite spikes. Biospira could be tried as a substitute, but is more variable in effect. Third, take some or all of the fish back till the tank is cycled and settles down. If you take all the fish back, you will need an ammonia source to add to the tank to grow bacteria. If you take only some back, you need a really small fish load to establish a biofilter with fish safely.

Read up in the articles section, and you can see how I have used fish safely at:

http://home.comcast.net/~tomstank/tomstank_files/page0017.htm

Some other things you can do, test your tap water for ammonia with a quality liquid reagent test kit. If positive, you have chloramines in your municipal supply, and need to always use dechlorinator. Also, test your tap for nitrates. If more than zero, you won't know your cycle is done till that level definitely increases. Since you have 5 ppm of nitrate in your tank this early, I would assume it came from the tap and you will need to see the nitrate increase to 10 or 20 (with ammonia and nitrite zero) to be certain the cycle is done.

 

[mellofone]

Well, to be blunt, the Angels are out of the equation. The midas cichlid took care of them

I wish I knew about this place sooner. I should have done some more research before just listening to the folks at Petsmart. "Sure, midas cichlid's and Angelfish are fine together."

Doh. Oh well, you don't learn unless you fail first

 

[joannde]

mellofone - I agree about AA - I probably would have been banging my head against the wall if I hadn't found AA.

Now that you're here there are some great articles in the articles section and alot to learn from the "stickies" in each of the forums. Like you, I had no clue about anything - when I originally set my tank up nearly 20 years ago nobody talked about water chemistry, compatability, or cycling. When I decided to set it up again after a 15 year hiatus I somehow found the forum before I did anything - I guess I just got lucky It all started when I wanted to do a cichlid tank in my 29G .... decided against that in the end because of the limitations in a relatively small tank. But someday ............

 

[mellofone]

For water cycling, should I do it directly from the faucet/python or from a bucket that has had chance to sit and come to room temperature? I picked up some dechlorinator. Should that be added to a bucket and then mixed into the tank, or can I add water directly THEN add dechlorinator?

So many questions, so little time

 

[Fishyfanatic]

You can just python the water directly into the tank. Adjusted the faucet temp so it comes out at the appropriate temp. Add dechlor as the water is filling.

 

[mellofone]

Ok, I replaced 50% of the water and will wait a bit to test it. Wow that Python sure makes life easy. Well worth the money even if it were 10 times the price! I also tested water straight from the tap:

pH - 7.2
Nitrate - 10
Nitrite - 0
Ammonia - 2

EDIT

Tested the tank water about 2 hours later:

Nitrate - 10
Ammonia - 2

No change...

 

[TomK2]

Bummer. If your tap water tests positive for ammonia, you almost certainly certainly have chloramines in your municipal supply. That means you can't get the ammoni down below your tap baseline of 2 ppm. All you can do is use a dechlor that also has an ammonia binder in it, trying to keep the ammonia from harming your fish. The only positive aspect of chloramines of 2 ppm is that you could take your fish back, add a simple dechlorinator like thiosulfate, and do a fishless cycle with the 2 ppm of ammonia that comes with your tap water after dechlorinating.

http://home.comcast.net/~tomstank/tomstank_files/page0018.htm

 

[mellofone]

Any specific brands I should try? I've read stuff here about AmQuel...

I got some Top Fin / Petsmart Dechlorinator that says it "removes Chlorine, Chloramine, and Heavy Metals" in my aquarium kit. Is that worth the attempt?

 

[Purrbox]

The dechlorinator that you already have is worthless in your situation. It takes care of the basics, but there's simply too much ammonia in your water. You need a dechlorinator that will also detoxify ammonia (convert it to another form which is less toxic to fish but still available to the biofilter). Both AmQuel and Prime will dechlorinate your water and detoxify Ammonia.