LFS Provides "New" Idea For Setup

[Dr_Doom2]

Hey guys:

I have been lurking around reading threads for a few months now. I'm getting very close to taking the plunge for my 1st reef tank. I have read all about the debates of plenum vs. DSB and all filtration methods, lighting opinions, and just about every topic I can think of!!

My problem is that I went into a LFS that has been around for 30 yrs. and spoke to the owner. I told him that for money and space constraints, I'd like to start a 29g reef tank (few hardy corals, and a few fish) and asked for his input. He seems very knowledgeable and suggested the following setup which completely throws me for a loop:

* 29g tank
* 2 bulb 30" HO flourescent light (didn't get into exact wattage)
* 30 or so lbs of dry aragonite (caribSea Seafloor Special Grade)
* 30 or so lbs of live rock
* sufficient heater
* power filter (don't remember brand or size maybe upto 55g with
sponge and carbon media)

He said skimmer won't make a HUGE difference unless you go to a super-expensive unit so its not needed in this particular setup.


This guy has some spotlessly clean tanks and some very healthy corals, inverts, and fish of all sizes. He pretty much specializes in SW setups. He doesn't seem to be trying to take as much of my money as he can. What gives?? Am I missing something or is this a super-secret ultra-simple reef tank setup that I haven't read about?

Without starting debates on which methods are better, what do you guys think about the success of THIS particular combination?

Thanks,

Jeff

Oh yeh, I forgot to mention that what I call "new" in the subject line is just new to me. He says he has started MANY of these setups that have been successfully maintained for 10+ years!!

 

[Innovator]

It is a solid setup that has been around for many, many years. I would venture in saying it is a modified Berlin system so instead of a skimmer you use a filter, except many diy their filters into refugiums, thus making it a "natural system" utilizing live rock as your main biological filter. They have been around since the 1970's?

 

[Dr_Doom2]

It just seems a little too simplified!! I've read MANY MANY hours to get ideas about what works and what doesn't. I think I may be a little too gun-shy right now. I probably just need to get something up and running and see how it goes!! I've always been a little too much of a planner and not enough of a do'er!!

One thing I can't really understand yet though is if a very basic setup is "solid" even in a 29g bucket...why does everyone add suck complexity and expense to their systems that are bigger and more stable? ...'prolly opening a can of worms with that one

 

[Innovator]

For a 29g I would use an Aquaclear 110 filter and modify into a refugium like so: ReefMonkey Saltwater Aquarium Forum - View topic - DIY AquaClear 70 fuge The propeller doesn't need to be modified in a 110 and the light platform can be made a little nicer with some ingenuity. If you provide at least 1.5" of space from where the extension tube platform sits and the baffle you can fit in two 50w heaters (Visitherm or Tronic). Lighting will depend on what you wish to keep and I will go ahead and assume you will eventually want some type of coral collection, whether it be soft, lps, or sps. You only need enough sand for 2"-3". You cannot create a sufficient dsb in such a small footprint nor would you want to take up so much space.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Agree with Innovator... nothing really "new" about the setup described. Pretty standard setup in my opinion. I'd just make sure the lighting you get will support the corals you want.

 

[Dr_Doom2]

****UPDATE**** Sorry to change topics but here goes...

OK, I'll admit it. I'm a sucker for splurging on my hobbies!! I went back and talked with the owner for 45 minutes or so. After our discussion, I left with a beautiful 50 gallon Show by Oceanic [30x18x18] AquaClear 110, 40lbs of sand, and salt mix. I plan to set everything up and cycle it (maybe 3 weeks by adding a cocktail shrimp??) and then add about 50lbs of live rock and wait for a hopefully shorter cycle. Then I'll buy a lighting system and a couple fish. When its maintaining itself, I'll start introducing some softies and begin amassing my underwater showcase!!

Does this sound like a workable plan??

By the way, he was still under the impression that I wasn't buying yet, just looking so he wasn't in full-salesman mode!! The 50g was my choice!!

Thanks!!

Jeff

 

[ccCapt]

Great size tank to start with. I started with the same size.
The only thing I would suggest is get the live rock now and cycle with it instead of cycling with the shrimp and possibly having another cycle start when you add the rock later.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

I think you'll be much happier starting bigger. You'll be amazed how quick you run out of room if you intend to add coral.

Also agree that you should add the rock right up front. Adding it later will only prolong the cycle.

When its maintaining itself, I'll start introducing...

Boy... if you get it to maintain itself, let us know how you do it! I think I know what you mean, but I just had to chuckle at that statement. You're on the right track though... research, and take it slow.

 

[Dr_Doom2]

OK, so maybe I don't know how to properly use the jargon yet, but I'm learning!! Thanks for the help and the insults!! I can deal with both!!

 

[intimatecple]

You will definitely enjoy the 50 much more than a small tank...and in about 6 months you are gonna be wanting a 100 gal or larger. It is addictive and looks like you are off to a good start. Welcome to AA!!! The best advice I have ever been given is take it slow , RESEARCH, ask LOTS OF QUESTIONS adn HAVE FUN!!!!

 

[sooju]

set everything up and cycle it (maybe 3 weeks by adding a cocktail shrimp??) and then add about 50lbs of live rock and wait for a hopefully shorter cycle

Was that his suggestion? Seems like you can kill two birds with one stone here and use the live rock to cycle your tank...should be shorter that way too.

 

[goisles1]

****UPDATE**** Sorry to change topics but After our discussion, I left with a beautiful 50 gallon Show by Oceanic [30x18x18] AquaClear 110, 40lbs of sand, and salt mix.

Jeff

Hey Jeff... Congrats on the Bigger Tank... And welcome to the hobby!

I started with pretty much the same setup as you... mine is a 45gal and I had an AquaClear 500 which is the old name for the 110. I started my cycle with 80lbs of sand(DSB) and 50lbs of LR. In the AC500, I just added all the LR rubble that came with my Online Order of LR. I also purchased a HOB AquaC remore Pro Protein Skimmer.

I quickly realized I wanted/needed a sump. So, I added a 10gallon tank I had in my garage to the system and built a DIY overlfow out of PVC.

My current setup has the 10gal tank under my display tank with all the equipment in it (Skimmer, AQ500, andheater).
Next I will try to incorporate a refugium into the sump.. If it wont work, I will upgrade to a 20gal sump...

It's addicting!

 

[Dr_Doom2]

It was just my idea. I was planning on piecing it together to avoid large outlays all at once. I'm getting excited to see some water though!! I will probably wait till I get the LR and just set it up at that point. My last major expenditure (prob most important) is my lighting. Can I cycle the live rock and sand and run it with the 20-watt normal output flourescent light strip that came with the aquarium? I would like to wait a few weeks before I buy the lights just to split up the cash flows!! Or should I wait it out and get the lights so I do everything at the same time with the light levels that I'll be using?

Also, while I'm on that question...are corals the only "light sensitive" critters or do the live rock (bacteria) and fish need to be under quality lighting from the beginning? This seems like a basic question but I can't find any threads to answer it!!

Thanks again,

Jeff

 

[nanoluvr]

I usually like to start the cycle sans all light for about 4 days, and then gradually bring it up...5th day, actinics for 4 hours, 6th day actinics for 4 hours, daylight for 2, and so on until gradually I have my full lighting on after the 10th or 12th day. That's just me, though. It seems to cut down on initial problem algae growth during the cycle

 

[goisles1]

I cycled my tank with the SAME bulb you have (perfecto 20W). After adding my first 2 clown fish, I realized I needed a nicer light. I just didn't like the way the tank looked for a regular light..

I recently added the Nova Extreme Pro T5 light to my tank. I had a Diatom Bloom that lasted a couple weeks but has since burned itself out. I still get occasional Green Nussiance Algae on my glass which requires some manual cleaning. Other then that.. All seems to be going GREAT...

I was toldthat you can keep the 20W lighting for as long as you only have a FOWLR tank. When your ready for Corals you'll need better lighting.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

...
I was toldthat you can keep the 20W lighting for as long as you only have a FOWLR tank. When your ready for Corals you'll need better lighting.

Yup... agree. The only thing that "needs" light are the corals. Coralline algae (the purple stuff that encrusts your rock) needs light, but only a little. And that'll take a while to really take off so there's no need for good lighting just for it.

The fish don't need better lighting, but you'll enjoy their coloration better under more intense lights. But if you're looking to put off the lighting purchase, I'm sure you can deal with a few months of drab looking fish.

One thing you might do though when you add the new lighting is don't add the lighting and the next day get corals. I'd plan on waiting a month or two after the new lights to put corals in. With the increased lighting, the whole biological system might go through an adjustment period with possibly some nuisance algae to deal with.

 

[Dr_Doom2]

Thanks for all of the great advice guys. I'm sure I'll have a lot of new questions when I get her up and running. Just thought I'd share a recent missed opportunity with you though. A LFS decided to dis-continue their salt water livestock and sold everything they had. LR was $1 a pound and all fish were $5 no matter what they were. I heard about it a week after the fact!! AAArrggh!!

-Jeff

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

It might've been a blessing in disguise that you missed it. I'm thinking that if they were getting out of the SW end of things that their livestock/rock wasn't that good to start with. If their stuff was great (and people wanted it) then they probably wouldn't have been getting out of that end of things.

 

[Dr_Doom2]

What are the down sides or bad things that come from poor quality or cheap live rock? Is it a bad thing to use cheap live rock with a new setup?

 

[nanoluvr]

When selecting live rock....Cured pieces are best. That means that they have already had all the organic matter that died off during the transit and selection process well...die off and gorw beneficial bacteria. Also...Look for porous pieces. Heavy, dense pieces don't have as much space for bacteria to colonize, and should be avoided. Also, pieces with big holes allow for your various wards to inhabit and hide (important for some species). Anyways...I like to find some that have good coralline algae growth if possible. This is sometimes purple, pink or green. It encrusts the rock. Having some of this present makes it easier to later grow more on the rocks, and it will look spectacular. Most LR available comes from Fiji. It's, for the most part, pretty good rock. It's what I have in my tanks, and I have many beneficial hitchhikers that came in on those rocks. (Some, not so good, lol) It costs around $4.99/lb. in my neck of the woods. You can order from Fostersmith.com boxes of it for cheaper. Also, a LFS in my area sells rock from the MArshall Islands for around $14.99/lb. Too rich for my blood, but it does have some good algaes and coral colonies attached to it.
If you're stocking a large tank, you can use dead LR, or base rock, on the bottom and LR on the top to save money....just takes a bit longer for the proper colonization of bacteria and such.