LR Rubble in sump

[pearsont74]

OK...I finally got my tank goin and will get LR this weekend (hopefully).
I few questions - Should I remove the trickle part on the sump, you know that part where the water flows in and flows thru a plate with lots of holes. I i I need to make sure the water is high enough to cover the LR rubble but wasnt sure about that part
if anyone has a god pic please please post it for me to see
Ill be posting pics soon - probably tonight

 

[fishfreek]

You can remove the bio balls if you wish. If you have a DSB then the nitrate production the bioballs can cause will be counteracted by the DSB to some degree. If you put LR in the sump the rock does need to be fully submerged. I see no real problem with submerging the bioballs aswell. The submerged biomedia will just become surface area for bactera to colonate and help filter the water of ammonia and nitrite. When you increase the water level in the sump be sure to keep it low enough to hold the backflow water when the pump is off.

 

[pearsont74]

I am putting check values on the return pump side to prevent.
I know aobut keepin the LR rubble underwater and I figured out that I need to remove the trickle part cause its too loud LOL

 

[Oceanicsublimat]

can u add lr rubble later, if nitrate becomes problematic, or should u just add it in the beginning?

 

[morphviper]

My opinion would be to keep the drip plate and put some filter foam there to catch the big stuff. this should eliminate all noise, if not, maybe something is wrong with the setup.

The only problem that I have with live rock in a wet/dry application is that it depletes the water of oxygen which is what kills the nitrates and the live rock rubble isn't actually live any more so it is the same as bio balls submerged in water.

I know some will argue this, but I have several wet dry setups with not one problem with nitrates or anything else. I am not saying that live rock rubble doesn't work, I just think it is more costly and I haven't seen the benefits of it yet.

 

[pearsont74]

so you saying the bioballs submerged would be just as good? I thought about that but wasnt sure and gezz....it would be cheaper. Everywhere I've gone they want to sell the rubble jsut as much as the bigger rock.
Question, how high should I bring the water? the noise is comin from the water dripping off the drip plate.

 

[morphviper]

When you put the LR rubble or Bio balls in the sump this should eliminate all noice. right now it sounds as if the water is dropping a good distance to make the trickle noise.

In my wet/dry filter I don't have any of it submerged in water. I use the trickle or wet dry filter how it is supose to be used and works great. I added light to the filter to promote algea growth in the filter and not in my tank and it works great. I also use bio balls in it.

 

[midiman]

The only problem that I have with live rock in a wet/dry application is that it depletes the water of oxygen which is what kills the nitrates and the live rock rubble isn't actually live any more so it is the same as bio balls submerged in water.

No, that's incorrect. It's the very much alive LR rubble (actually, the bacteria in it)that remove the nitrates, and these bacteria do not require high oxygen (in fact, it would kill them).

Oxygen does not remove nitrates, anaerobic bacteria do. Bioballs lack the pore structure that allows these bacteria to set up shop.

 

[RMPD109]

I agree with midiman- denitrification(nitrate removal) requires anaerobic conditions(lack of oxygen) to work. LR gives this ability deep within its structure. The bioballs will not provide the denitrifying bacteria. Bioballs will help with nitrifying bacteria as will LR. Both will harber beneficial bacteria and that is what makes it live, therefore it will be LR.

 

[JPloman]

I have bioballs and have had no problems. My sump (bioballs) as been set up for like 4 months now. Prior to that I had all kinds of problems...

 

[pearsont74]

JPloman - are ur bioballs under water?

 

[midiman]

I have bioballs and have had no problems. My sump (bioballs) as been set up for like 4 months now. Prior to that I had all kinds of problems...

What kind of problems? The LR/bioball topic refers to nitrate levels, for the most part.

 

[RMPD109]

Bioballs have been succesfully used for years and I dont think anyone here is saying that they are EVIL. What many of us are saying is that there are other options that equal or even outperform the benefits of the bioballs. In my opinion even if the bioballs dont cause high nitrates in my system I would still upgrade to LR to help with nitrification, denitrification and refuge for pods to grow. Of course this is just MHO

 

[JPloman]

My bioballs are completely submerged. Prior to bioballs I had nitrate problems they were really outta control. That led to Cyanobacteria and hair algae. Those problems have gone away. I don’t know if it because of the increased surface area for bacteria or something else, but I do know there is a major difference.

I agree that using lr rubble would increase the pod population, but I do not think it is worth the money to invest in the lr rubble on a new set up.

I think if you went with bioballs for a new system then slowly added lr rubble and removed the bioballs, you would have the same effect and it would not mean dropping tons of money on lr rubble in the beginning when things like skimmers and lr are an issue.

I personally would rather see someone who is new to the hobby learn the joys of the tank before seeing how expensive it is. If I had known how much money I was going to drop on my tank, I more than likely would never have started it.

 

[Phyl]

I have bioballs submerged in my sump and the biggest problem I have with that theory is that they FLOAT! DUH! I put the trickle plate over top of them to help hold them down so that they stay submerged but they move with the water level.

 

[JPloman]

I have bioballs submerged in my sump and the biggest problem I have with that theory is that they FLOAT! DUH! I put the trickle plate over top of them to help hold them down so that they stay submerged but they move with the water level.

LOL

I did the same thing.

 

[pearsont74]

ok...i feel better now.

 

[morphviper]

No, that's incorrect. It's the very much alive LR rubble (actually, the bacteria in it)that remove the nitrates, and these bacteria do not require high oxygen (in fact, it would kill them).

The statement above, in my understanding says that if it has bacteria it is alive, well I was always under the impression that it took more than bacteria to make it alive, other wise we would have alive bio balls.

I believe I said it depletes the oxygen, which in studies has shown that the lack of oxygen can and will remove nitrates for several reasons. One being the bacteria that eats ammonia and nitrates no longer do their job and produce nitrates so there for eliminating them but also leaving all the work to your lr in the tank. the other is the bacteria that eat nitrates are more abundant. It could be either one depending on how much bacteria you had to start with. Unless these studies that are put out are full of it???

I am not saying the lr rubble won't work, I just don't like the cost and possible side effects when there are other means at a much affordable cost. We all have our opinions.

 

[RMPD109]

denitrification(nitrate removal) requires anaerobic conditions(lack of oxygen) to work. LR gives this ability deep within its structure

As I said earlier it is lack of oxygen. Bioballs have no place for the oxygen depleted water to go and go through denitrification. LR does not use oxygen per se. As the water travels to the inner parts of the rock it gets depleted of the oxygen and is where the denitrification process occurs.

 

[JPloman]

Sorry... I got it now...

Edited!