Marine Questions. on starting a small setup. with no LR

[Stuquarium]

i want to start a marine setup in my 35g for just 2 clowns. and no live rock but live coral. if its doable..

i've been to my LFS. and i;ve learnt a bit more about saltwater setups. i wanna clarify with you all if hes telling me the right thing.. and i'm doing the right thing..

ok. its possably to have a fish only tank.
this means:
1. you dont need a protein skimmer, a power head, and UFG is useless. but cannister. or HOB is the best option for filtration

2. coral sand is the best option with NO live rock setup.. that being said, can i keep live coral, dead coral in this tank knowing that none of the above is needed? or if i want live coral i need to have a power head and skimmer? EDIT: i understand that i need powerful lighting for coral so would invertabre and dead coral be another option to decorate the tank?

3. light is also not as important as a live rock setup? which means the tube i used for my FW trops is ok for my clowns and my live coral?

4. using synthetic salt means that i have to change the water weekly. at 25%?

5. and this is the one that worried me the most.
because nothings cycling the tank the fish can go in straight after water treatment.. is this true?

6.for a 35G tank 10 kgs of coral sand is enough for a 35g tank. a thinner subsrate is better?

so how much is true and how much is bs guys?

[lando]

Welcome to AquariumAdvice.com!!

you dont need a protein skimmer, a power head, and UFG is useless. but cannister. or HOB is the best option for filtration

You do not need a skimmer but it does help water parameters. You do need powerheads, especially is you want corals. UGF is outdated and not needed. Cannister/HOB are NOT your best option for filtration. 1.5-2lbs/gal of LR is your best option for filtration. Why do you not want LR? If you are planning a reef you will need to have plenty of LR. It is the basis for a reef tank and helps keep water quality high. A must for corals.

coral sand is the best option with NO live rock setup..

A LS bed is agood option for substrate. Stay away from CC as it will cause nitrates to climb. LR will help with this.

light is also not as important as a live rock setup? which means the tube i used for my FW trops is ok for my clowns and my live coral?

I guess Iam not sure what you mean by "live coral" Can you explain? Lighting is not really important for LR. LR's main benefit is the excellent biological filtration it can give to your tank. The beneficial bacteria harbored by the LR does not need light to survive.

using synthetic salt means that i have to change the water weekly. at 25%?

Regular water changes are one of the best ways to keep water parameters high. However, 25% a week is extreme. 10-15% every two or three weeks is just fine.

and this is the one that worried me the most.
because nothings cycling the tank the fish can go in straight after water treatment.. is this true?

NO. Your tank will need to cycle slowly and naturally before you can add fish or other livestock. Do not be tempted to buy any product that claims to reduce cycling time like Bio-spira or Prime or Cycle. They are crap, not worth the money and not the best option for your tank. The best way to cycle is to use a raw shrimp from the grocery store or some uncured LR to start the biological cycle.

.for a 35G tank 10 kgs of coral sand is enough for a 35g tank. a thinner subsrate is better?

Not really, but it depends. By "coral sand" do you mean LS or CC. CC has a tendency to roduce nitrates and requires regular vacuuming to keep it free of detritus. A DSB of 4-6 inchs will actually help keep nitrates down and require very little maintanance.

so how much is true and how much is bs guys?

A little of both. I can tell you this...If I was setting up another tank today I would not use most of the advice given by your LFS.

[malkore]

Good work Lando.

Lighting isn't too important for live rock...but it's all important if you plan to keep corals. Also, corals will need something to anchor to, as many species won't grow on sand.

Why don't you want live rock? Its probably one of the best things you can do for a saltwater tank. If cost is prohibitive, use a mix of live and dead rock, 1-2lbs per gallon (I'd aim for 45-50lbs personally, since you only plan to stock 2 clowns).

Skip crushed coral, no matter what setup you choose...I'd skip live sand and just get some carib-sea aragamax sand, which should be as coarse as sugar crystals.

I tend to only change 5gallons a week on my 40gallon tank. Fish and corals seem to like this schedule.

[Stuquarium]

awesome help guys thanks!

i'ts only really fulled more questions

i bough t 10kgs of coral sand. i don't know if thats crushed coral or not.

the only reason i didn;t want liver rock was the expense.. and its not like you can;t add it later.. that being said it sounds like its a good idea to save pennies and get some live rock. although my dad had a tank with no live rock. for year and years.. mmmm undecided!

and your saying that live rock is the best filtration system for marine? i wouldn't have to buy a cannister or HOB ? that will make this all a little more affordable. he also mention i could get away with 10kgs of LR in a 35gal tank is that wrong too ?


what about in a FO setup can invertabre be added?

thanks for your helps guys

[lando]

the only reason i didn;t want liver rock was the expense..

L can be pretty exspensive, but if you search around you can get some good prices online. Not sure around your area though. Another option to go with a mixture of LR and what is called base rock. Base rock is regular rock and is a lot cheaper. Eventualy, the LR you add will seed the base rock and will all become LR over time. check out www.hirocks.com for base rock. A 50/50 ratio is fine.

and your saying that live rock is the best filtration system for marine? i wouldn't have to buy a cannister or HOB ?

It really is. There is nothing that gies you the biological filtering like LR. You can certainly run with out a HOB or canister filter. The "Berlin" method is simply using 1.5-2lbs/gal or LR, a 4-6inch DSB and a good protein skimmer. That is really all you need. THe best natural filtration you can get. Most people now use HOB and canister filters simply to provide water movement and a as a place to run carbon. No filter media.

[Stuquarium]

hmm cool..

now that i can use my filter money for liver rock it's not too big a problem


i'll get 10K of live and 10K of base. thes 20kg for a 35 gal tank.. that enough?

then all i need is a protien skimmer and i'm set!

thats alot easies i think!

[lando]

I belive the 30kg of rock is about 66lbs. perfect for a 35 gal.
Sounds like you are well on your way

[Stuquarium]

thanks mate.

it's all starting to make sense!

[lando]

thanks mate.

No problem! and for the record, I have never met an Aussie I have not liked. You are all afriendly bunch, that is for sure!

[Stuquarium]

hehe cheers mate

being around the oceans does it to ya i think . makes us all relaxed and casual..
constantly supply of beautiful weather, and women helps too

now just for the reconrd to to re-clarfy

i have
35g tank
10kg of coral sand
18 inch light

i need
10kg LR
10kg BR
synthetic salt.
protein skimmer

i cant have:
coral, live coral (the stuff that moves alot)
invertabreas? like anemoa?

[lando]

10kg of coral sand

I would still try to find out if it is CC or sand. Can you post a pic?

invertabreas? like anemoa?

There are several invets that will work in your tank. Reef crabs, all kinds of shrimp and snails. Anemones are a different sory. They require intense light, very mature tanks and are difficult to keep. Not for a young tank. When you start to research corals and reef ighting, you can look at anemones to. Have fun in the set up! Lando

[Stuquarium]

would still try to find out if it is CC or sand. Can you post a pic?

heres a few pics.

[lando]

Have not seen substrate like that before. Kind of looks like bird seed. Anyways, does ot look like traditional CC so you should be okay.

[Stuquarium]

thanks lando..

i'll have a look on the net to see if it looks like any CC


thanks for all your help!

[lando]

No problem. Keep stopping by AA with your questions.

[Stuquarium]

oh i will! this is my 1st marine experiance so i'm sure i'll have plenty to say and ask

[srgetz]

Put a little vinager on the sand, it should fizz up. That means it is aragonite (not silica) sand - which is good.

[Stuquarium]

plain old vinger? really how much per 10 kg?


lando - also.. i'm being told on another forum that i will need filtration regradless of LIVE rock. and a skimmmer..

i'm so confused! i dont know what to do ?

[srgetz]

No just put a small handfull into a container and pour a little vinegar, it should fizz immediately - good sand. No fizz = potentially bad sand.

The skimmer is not needed if you are strict with frequent water changes, you can add that in a few months or so. It removes organic waste from the water so you have less nitrates. Power filters simply trap waste and if not changed enough, does more harm then good (high nitrates, other bad bacteria). You can run a hob filter along with rock, like lando says it's not needed but you can use it along with lr. I use a hob emporer 400 for media like carbon and filter floss. You may also be able to buy coral rock cheap at a store (dry base rock) and seed it with just a few kgs lr. The system does not have to be too elaborate for 2 percula clowns, imo.

[Stuquarium]

ahh ok cool i'll go test it now!

time passes...

no fizz..