New Saltwater tank. Need advice and help PLEASE

[lakersfreak]

Here is my situation. I started a tank about 8 months ago. Everything was well until recently I had a massive red and green algae attack and everything started to die off. So yesterday I cleaned out everything including water and sand to start all over again.

Can someone tell me what I am missing or what I should look for?
Below is my equipment

20 gal tank
Fluval canister filter
50/50 light
about 8 lbs of live rock and approximately 12 lbs of fake rock
NO FISH (planning on getting damsel tonight.)

I don't have a protein skimmer. Do I need one? If so what brand?

I want a tank with few fish and inverts (mainly crabs and shrimps).
No corals or plants.


How often should I clean tank and/or filter???

Please if anyone can help I would highly appreciate it.
THANKS

 

[roka64]

planning on getting damsel tonight

It's not really recommended to cycle w/fish.

With smaller tanks, it is more important to check water to make sure there are no spikes.
I would suggest a test set:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4452&N=2004+113074
awesome price!

maybe a refractometer

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=9957&N=2004+113761

another great price.

I had a massive red and green algae attack and everything started to die off.

Sorry to hear that. It sounds like there might have been more going on than just that.
Hopefully other folks can help out here.

Good Luck!

 

[sir_dudeguy]

8 lbs of lr is not enough if its bigger than like, 10 gallons imo. so that could possibly by why...simply not enough filtration. I dont think that the fluval would do anything really, with live rock in there... i've got a fluval on my tank right now, but as soon as i get some lr, i'm trading for a decent hob skimmer (if anyone wants to trade, see my thread in the trade forum!) and dont do the damsels...or just wait till its done cycleing. If you have some more live rock, say...at least 12 lbs, then your cylce will go much faster, or you wont even see much of a cylce.

i'm sure i'll think of something else later too, but thats all i can think of now.
hth

 

[seaham358]

from what I read the tank is 8 months old so I woud "assume " the cycle is over. And in a 8 month time period the 12 lbs of base rock would now be LR so they have 20 lbs of LR now IMO, if they have been feeding the tank.. Is there anything in the tank????
What kind of water are you using? Tap, ro, ro/di???
Do you have test kits?
Post numbers, nitrates, phosphates.
Can u post a pic of the algae?
If it s red and slimy then it s cyno bacteria. Do a search on the site for info on this there are a ton of posts on this.

You did CYCLE the tank 8 months ago right?????
skimmer is a good idea but not needed if you do weekly water changes and keep testign the water to monitor the water quality.

 

[sir_dudeguy]

about 8 lbs of live rock and approximately 12 lbs of fake rock

fake rock, not base rock...if it is base rock, then ya, it would be live by now imo too...but if its fake rock, it wouldnt be...would it?

 

[lakersfreak]

I had the tank for 8 months before all went wrong so I restarted.

Don't I need fish to start cycle???

Do I need a protein skimmer?/

 

[sir_dudeguy]

no do not use fish to cycle...i did and didnt have a problem with anything, but its hard on the fish...i didnt know at the time of course. To start the cycle use a dead shrimp, like you would buy at the supermarket...just stick a couple in there. As far as the skimmer, they're not necessary if you really keep up on your water changes. You need to make sure that your amonia are being broken down into nitrite, and your nitrite to nitrate. If you have about 20 lbs of live rock, that'll take care of the breaking down of amonia and nitrite, and then the skimmer will keep all the crud out of the water, thus keeping down the nitrates and stuff. If you dont have a skimmer, you'll have excess nitrates, which will kill fish if much above 20. I dont think theres a way to get rid of nitrates other than water changes, so if you dont have a skimmer, you need to make sure to do yer changes.

buy test kits if you dont have them, as you'll need them to see where your cycle is at, and jsut for after too.

 

[ryguy]

If you dont have a skimmer, you'll have excess nitrates, which will kill fish if much above 20. I dont think theres a way to get rid of nitrates other than water changes, so if you dont have a skimmer, you need to make sure to do yer changes.

This is not entirely true.

Nitrates are non-toxic to fish, but can be detrimental to your inverts. Exceeding 20ppm of nitrates won't kill your fish but it isn't safe practice for overall health of your tank.

High nitrates are indicative of some underlying problem that needs to be dealt with. Testing for NO3 is a good way to give you a general look at the waters quality, and anything above 20ppm needs to be dealt with by PWC's. Good skimmers will help keep your NO3 levels in check, but it's also important not to overfeed as well.

There are other methods for nitrate control, the most popular being refugiums with planted macro's. The macro's will utilise the NO3 for growth, thus diminishing the levels and giving you O2 as a beneficial by-product.

 

[sir_dudeguy]

ah, srry about that one! Ive always been told that high nitrates CAN kill fish, but yes, it isnt good overall for your tank. I've just heard where if its much above the 20 mark, it can cause problems, but as said above, that WOULD indicate something else. And do the macro USE nitrates, or do they just hold them? i'm unclear about that...

again, srry for that mixup

 

[ryguy]

Don't sweat the mixup, no biggie.

The macro's USE the nitrates (and phosphates too), and convert them to plant bio-mass.

 

[sir_dudeguy]

is that the same with freshwater plants? the way they use nitrates?

 

[ryguy]

it's food for all vegatation.

 

[lakersfreak]

There are other methods for nitrate control, the most popular being refugiums with planted macro's. The macro's will utilise the NO3 for growth, thus diminishing the levels and giving you O2 as a beneficial by-product.

What are refegiums and planted macro's??
So I can leave tank without fish thorugh cycle?

 

[sir_dudeguy]

well, i know that they have hang on refuge's (or fuges). They look pretty much like a hang on back filter, except they're quite a bit bigger. They also have a light on them, so that you can put macros in there. Macro is a type of algae...i think its kinda bushy lookin. Anyways, you put the macro in there, and when the water passes thru it, it takes in the nitrates. I think you also put live sand in the fuge too, but i dont have one on my tank (prolly gonna get one, but my nitrates are perfect right now) so i'm not sure about the sand part.

So I can leave tank without fish thorugh cycle?

yes, you can leave it with fish through out the cycle. put a couple of those dead shrimp in there to jump start the bacteria growing. (i think you can take those out after about a week and a half or so, but i'd wait for someone else to chime in on that). Also, if you can afford it, definately get at least 10 lbs of live rock. If you have enough live rock, i've read that you probably wont see much of a cycle, but i dont know if 8 lbs is enough.

anyways, the first thing that will happen for your cycle is the amonia will go up...i think anyways...thats what happened on mine.

Then, once your rock and everything gets the bacteria goin (your amonia will probably go back to 0 at this point)...it breaks the amonia down to NITRITES. At this point, your nitrites go up, and, same as with amonia, they get broken down (and go back to 0) and turn into NITRATES.

Nitrates, as we've said before, (and i found out!!) are non-toxic to the fish, but could kill inverts, and when they die, they DO create problems because they make for poor water quality. However, if you have the hang on fuge, with macro in it, then you shouldnt have any nitrate problems.

once EVERYTHING goes back to 0 you're done! Although there will probably be a few nitrates still, but anything under 15, you dont really gotta worry, but anything above 20, you should check to see whats goin on.

sorry for the novel, but HTH

 

[lakersfreak]

Thanks for all the help guys. So do I need a protein skimmer. And if so which brand is good. I heard the Red Sea Prizm one is good.

 

[ryguy]

a refugium as well as being a place to grow macroalgaes for nutrient export, also provides a place of refuge for pods to colonize. Pods is a simplified term given to amphipods, copepods and the like. Pods are food for several species of fish.

 

[ryguy]

a skimmer is definetely a huge added bonus on any system. You could get by without on on a small tank, but it would require more frequent pwc's. Having a skimmer would be a smart move, IMO.

The prisms are alright. It will do the trick. If you want a better product, the aqua-c remora is the go-to skimmer in my book.

 

[sir_dudeguy]

ya, i've heard pretty bad reviews on the prizm, but then again, its gotta be better than nothing...same w/the seaclone, but i've heard there are a few modifications you can do to those to make them better. The aqua c remora is definately the go to one, as far as hang on skimmers go. If you were to get a sump, there are better, more expensive ones of course. Another good one (from what i've heard is the...aahhh...i'm thinkin coralife superskimmer? i know the second part is superskimmer, but i forgot who makes it! Right now, i'm gonna be trading my fluval to get a cpr bak pak, which have got some pretty good reviews.

 

[lakersfreak]

This is a pretty cheap skimmer. Should I buy or not??

Better to buy a cheap one or wait a couple of months and buy a good one.

There is just a huge price difference in skimmers.

http://www.petsmart.com/global/prod...2&Ntt=skimmer&In=All&previousText=skimmer&N=2

 

[sir_dudeguy]

mmmm...i'd look in the classifieds part i think before i bought that...see if you can swing a trade for something better