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Old 11-15-2004, 09:19 PM   #1
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OK...fw tank is no more...moved to SW and need advice

Hey guys. Cleaned out the old 20 gallon FW tank and decided to make a SW with LR and fish. I went to the lfs and he loaded me up on the sand ( agrag alive sand, 40 pounds) also bought some Live rock (about 4 pounds of it) and some other coral rock that wasnt live. Ended up gettng water from their tank that had been up and running with fish in for a while (same water the fish I got were in) and brought it all home and set it up. the tank looks pretty good and the sand settled really fast. I do think I need some more live rock, but at the prices that they want (9.00 per pound), Ill order it from somewhere.

What else do I need for this tank? The guy at the lfs said to do NO water changes for about 6 weeks and only add after evaporation. Is there anything I need to know other than what he has told me? Oh, he also gave me some crabs and shells from their crab tank. Is there anything else I need to get? How many fish can I put in this tank?

I only have a clown fish and a small yellow tang in the tank now. Anything else I need to know or do?

Sorry for the dumb questions, but Im wanting to do this one right.
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Old 11-15-2004, 09:23 PM   #2
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Not to be rude, but did you just set the tank up and add the tang and clown right away? If so, i believe you're tang will be dead in a few days. The clown may live through the cycle. Hopefully I missed something, but a new sw setup has to "cycle" in order for beneficial bacteria to build up to control ammonia and nitrates (which will kill fish).

Also, a 20 gal in a bit small for a tang, I'm no expert, but those 2 fish would be your limit.

Sorry, don't mean to be negative.
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Old 11-15-2004, 09:27 PM   #3
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The water was from a cycled tank as well as was the rock and such. The substrate was the only thing NOT from a cycled tank already. i just did what the lfs told me to do. I do know about cycling as i did the FW, but the guy said that the water and LR were what I needed and the fish would be good to go. hopefully, this guy wasnt a jackass and led me wrong.
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Old 11-15-2004, 09:32 PM   #4
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I knew the 20 gallon was a bit small as well. I only wanted a few fish in this tank. I am going to get a 50 gallon shortly and will transfer them over and add more fish then.
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Old 11-15-2004, 09:32 PM   #5
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You did the right thing and listened to someone who should know about this stuff, but I'm afraid he was a "jackass" and led you wrong. 4 lbs of live rock is hardly any ( i understand the price thing, so online is a way better deal), but you'd need 20-30 lbs to have some good filtration going, the water means very little but the sand is a major part in housing the good bacteria. You will also (likely) need a heater and some water movement, i imagine you have somekind of filter going.

Again, i don't mean to be negative, but they gave you some bad info. The clown will likely do ok, is it eating?

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Old 11-15-2004, 09:33 PM   #6
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50 gal would be a good setup for the tang and you could then house some other fish too. Perhaps use the 20 gallon for a QT or a refugium or even a sump.
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Old 11-15-2004, 09:34 PM   #7
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not eating yet, but NONE of my fish ever ate the first meal here, LOL...and I am going to be gettng more live rock VERY soon. I do have the heater going as well as two Penguin filters (a 125 and a 170?) ...Where is a good place online to get some LR?
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Old 11-15-2004, 09:37 PM   #8
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As a matter of fact, they are both kind of just hiding right now, which I suppose is normal from stress. The Clown is just kind of staying in one place and swimming around while the tang does explore a bit more.
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Old 11-15-2004, 09:46 PM   #9
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PLEASE be sure you Cure the live rock if you order it online, even if it does say it was "cured" before it was sent. There will be die off from the shipping and it will cause ammonia buildup in your uncycled tank, it will even casue an ammonia spike in established tanks. Cure it for several weeks before you put it in your aquarium or your fish will likely die. Perahps the clown will live, and I don't mean to be harsh, but uncured live rock in a new tank that is uncycled will spell DISASTER!

Can someone else back me up, i don't want this guy to think I'm crazy, and I really want his setup to work. Lando, help me out.........
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Old 11-15-2004, 09:48 PM   #10
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Where can I get it online? Also, Im thinking maybe I should get some BioSpira and put in the tank to cycle it? Any ideas?
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Old 11-15-2004, 09:59 PM   #11
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liverocks.com
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Tank: 55 Gallon
The equipment: Coralife 4x65w (2x10k; 2xActinic), Emperor 400, 2 PH
The Fish: black maroon clown, neon goby, yellow watchman goby, 3 blue-green chromis, royal gramma, and a yellow clown goby.
The Coral: zoos, kenya trees, shrooms, leathers, hammer, and star polyps
The Inverts: LT anemone, pistol shrimp, urchins, etc.
The Janitors: nassarius snails, turbos, hermits, several brittle and serpent stars
The Rock: 68# of Keys-12# Base Rock; from LR.com
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Old 11-15-2004, 10:07 PM   #12
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How big is the tang now?
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Tank: 55 Gallon
The equipment: Coralife 4x65w (2x10k; 2xActinic), Emperor 400, 2 PH
The Fish: black maroon clown, neon goby, yellow watchman goby, 3 blue-green chromis, royal gramma, and a yellow clown goby.
The Coral: zoos, kenya trees, shrooms, leathers, hammer, and star polyps
The Inverts: LT anemone, pistol shrimp, urchins, etc.
The Janitors: nassarius snails, turbos, hermits, several brittle and serpent stars
The Rock: 68# of Keys-12# Base Rock; from LR.com
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Old 11-15-2004, 10:09 PM   #13
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He is very small...3 inches long 2 inches tall maybe? Not big at all. Should I get some salt water bio-spira and dump it in? I can have it here tomorrow.
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Old 11-16-2004, 01:03 AM   #14
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I have never used bio-spira so on that I cannot comment. However you need to make a decision. Either return the fish until this is cycled or give it a go at the risk of the livestock. Indeed a 20 Gallon is to small for any tang. A 50 gallon is to small for a tang for that matter. Tangs require swimming room and a tank of at least 48" long is recommended. I highly suggest you return the fish until the tank has cycled. This "jackass" did what most Local stores do, and made a sale while trying to make it seem as if he was helping. The least they could do is hold the fish for you.

Not doing water changes for six weeks will indeed speed your cycle but WILL kill your fish. If you keep these fish and try to save it from here the only thing that will keep them alive is water changes. Look in the articles section above for cyclng and read up as much as you can. If you purchase more liverock from anywhere there is dieoff from being exposed to air. The longer it is out of water the more dieoff there is. With the fish in the tank this would have to cure out of the tank. A rubbermaid container with a small powerhead is a good place for this. Basically it needs to cycle as well; meaning water changes and monitoring until no ammonia can be detected.

I strongly urge you to return the fish. If not let us know so we can help with the other aspects that will arrise like mixing your water, water sources, salt mixes, filter changes, and on and on. Saltwater is IMO the most enjoyable and rewarding of the aquarium hobbies, but should be taken a step at a time. That's what we are here for I hope this helps.

Good luck I hope this helps,
Ronnie
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Old 11-16-2004, 10:42 AM   #15
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I agree wih sumphead, I would return all of the fish to the LFS and not go back to that one again for anything. 4lbs of LR is not enouhg to provide the right amount of biological filtration in your tank. The water from a cycled tank does not really matter. It serves no purpose in filtration. Trust me, if you do not do anything your fish will die. If you plan to proceed with fish, be prepared to do 20-30% water changes very frequently to remove amonia. This will greatly slow down your cycle time. You can try bio-spira but it is not the best option. A 20 gal. tank is way to small, even for a 3 inch tang, as well is a 50 gal. I would suggest buying "The Conscienious Marine Aquarist" by Robert Fenner to get you started. Most of the blame in this situation should fall on the LFS that gave you really bad advice. Good luck to you and please let us know what you decide and how things are going...Lando
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Old 11-16-2004, 10:52 AM   #16
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Hopefully there are other fish stores in your area. You definitely got a bad saleperson at the very least. Return the fish and read the book Lando suggested. Also, I did not see any mention of water testing. Got a kit? I'd think your ammonia readings may help you understand more about fish loads and bacteria needed to sustain them.

I got really lucky when I bought my equipment. The rep didn't really want to sell me anything and handed me Fenner's book. Suggested I read it and come back. So, I'd agree that saving those fish - returning them, and doing some researh first will go a long way towards helping you enjoy this hobby a great deal. Otherwise you'll be headed towards a lot of grief, heartaches, and wasted money.

Best of luck and keep us posted on your progress. At the very least, if that LFS tells you anything, give it a nite, ask the fine folks here about it, and make a decision the next day.
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