Playsand question

[Jonathan G.]

if you use this do you need a dsb or no?

[edit by BillyZ]i've created your own thread with your questions as it seems you have a couple questions on this subject[/edit]

 

[BillyZ]

you use this sand to create your DSB. It is dry sand that can be seeded with either just your LR or with some suplimental LS from your LFS. The tropical play sand very quickly becomes LS with the bacteria and critters from the LR(or LS from LFS)

 

[Jonathan G.]

But what im saying is do you have to make a DSB if you use this sand? Also what are the benefits of a DSB and is it better then CaribSea crushed aragonite?

 

[BillyZ]

I'm not sure if I understand your question exactly.

Sand is a type of substrate. Wether you pay $20 for a 20 pound bag of CaribSea sand or $3 for a 50 pound bag of argonite play sand is only a difference in price (a considerable difference)
Crushed Coral is another type of substrate.

a Deep Sand Bed is a "technique" of sorts that uses several inches of sand substrate. The benifits of which are that of natural filtration for your tank. A DSB is just a term used to describe the sand in the bottom of your tank. It is usually 4-6" of sand and is populated by worms and critters of all sorts as well as plentiful amounts of bacteria. The exact type of sand you use to create a DSB should be a calcium based argonite sand. The playsand most use is OldCastle/Yardright/Southdown playsand and is calcium based.


Does that help at all?

 

[cmor1701d]

Just to add to this discussion. A SSB is usually1 to 3 inches in depth and does not give the nitrate reduction benefit of a DSB.

CC needs to be vacuumed to clean it. Sand beds are usually cleaned by critters.

 

[thepirate]

are there any down sides to a deep sand bed?

i was told that if it is undisturbed it can produce dangerous gasses which can wipe out your tank overnight?

i was thinking of using a shallow sand bed with magic mud in a refugium and live rock rubble as a trickle filter.

what do you think?

 

[Jonathan G.]

K i'll admit it im a newbie, and i need help lol. K DSB is just a term used for how high ur sand bed is and doesnt have anything to do with the type or size of the sand? Cause from what i understood was that u needed a finer grade sand for a dsb; ex: HD tropical playsand, instead of using caribsea crushed aragonite. I guess here are my questions if anyone can help...

1.) Can you only use a smaller grain sand for a DSB? or do people also use caribsea crushed aragonite for a DSB?
2.) If i were to use tropical play sand and made a DSB of 4-6in, what is the difference then if i were to use caribsea crushed aragonite? which is a little bigger and is in most marine tanks i see around here, which is why im skeptical about using the tropical playsand.
3.) Also I hear you can't use any sandsifters if you have a DSB.... is this true and if so what would this limit me on as far as livestock and such?
4.)if a DSB is the way to go why do most tanks i see have the caribsea?

 

[Jonathan G.]

Oh and another question is caribsea CC? cuz you keep saying DSB is better then CC but when i compare CC to caribsea at my lfs the CC is way bigger and has shells and other stuff in it where the caribsea is a lot smaller and doesnt have any shells in it.

 

[RMPD109]

The smaller grained sand is needed to reduce oxygen for the process of eliminating the nitrates. The difference between the two is a DSB will eliminate nitrates and a CC substrate will add nitrates(unless vacuumed regularly). You can have sand sifters in a deep sand bed but depending on the type you will lose most of the life in it(worms etc). Some sand sifters only stay in the upper portion of the substrate. CC comes in different size particles but if you want the proper nitrate removal you need the fine sand.

 

[thepirate]

hi, i too don't know which way to go on this.

i want to reduce the nitrate levels however i am really concerned about the dangerous gasses building up in a deep sand bed. th DSB also takes up a considerable portion or your tank water, surely this has a detrimental effect?

any ideas?

mark

 

[BillyZ]

i'll admit it im a newbie, and i need help lol.

Thats what we're here for!

1.) Can you only use a smaller grain sand for a DSB? or do people also use caribsea crushed aragonite for a DSB?
Yes. what most suggest is range of grain size from silt size particles to average sand grain sizes (I think 1/2mm max) Take a look at this page for a quick comparison of the play sand to the caribsea Aragamax sand (NOT CC) The variation of grain size is said to be the most condusive of a diverse community of life in your sand bed. The more variety of life you have the better!


2.) If i were to use tropical play sand and made a DSB of 4-6in, what is the difference then if i were to use caribsea crushed aragonite? which is a little bigger and is in most marine tanks i see around here, which is why im skeptical about using the tropical playsand.
The major points of this have been answered already above by others. CC allows more water movement and thus oxygen. In order for the last stages of denitrification to occur, there must be a complete lack of oxygen in the deeper parts of your sand bed.


3.) Also I hear you can't use any sandsifters if you have a DSB.... is this true and if so what would this limit me on as far as livestock and such?
It is recommend that you do not use "Sand sifters" as what they are actually doing is feed on the life forms in your sand bed. As we've discussed, the life forms in the sand bed are what make the sand bed work. The tiny life forms, worms, copepods, tiny snails, etc; are the life forms that will "stir" your sand bed for you. You need no more activity than what they provide. Their activity it was provides the slow movement of water and gasses through the sand bed. IMO, it is a sand bed who's life has been deepleted that begins to build up the toxic gases that many are afraid of and claim to have wiped out their tank. As long you have a healthy and diverse sand bed, you shouldn't have to worry about toxic gases.


4.)if a DSB is the way to go why do most tanks i see have the caribsea?
*shrug* Trends change. The play-sand DSB, from what I've learned in the last couple of years, is a relatively new thing. For one, many LFS can't get ahold of the playsand. There is a "No-Compete" agreement between the playsand manufacturer and CaribSea. Therefore they can NOT sell their product to LFS' so most new comers are not aware of the better alternative.



I hope those answers help the both of you. For some additional information, please check out our, Articles Section there are a number of articles there that will likely answer many of your questions. Particularly, I suggest reading How ammonia is converted to nitrate