Riddle me this...(Q about Nitrate Levels)

[Hookemhorns_98]

My regular LFS had not mixed any salt water yet, so I strolled into one of Austin's other LFS's to buy some salt water. I have dealt with this LFS a billion times, and they are purdy reputable, but anyhooo...I told them I needed salt water cause I was gonna do a water change to bring my Nitrates down 'cause they were way too high. He got this funny look on his face and asked how high they were. I responded with 50 ppm, and expected him to be shocked, however he only laughed and told me my other LFS was #*$%*%)@&^#$...He walked me over to his show tank (which is beautiful and has been filled with great coral for years) and quickly did a Nitrate test...TWO-HUNDRED PPM!!! He then tested his smaller show tank, and abra cadabra...200 ppm again.

I've read multiple times here, that Nitrates greater than X are deadly to invertabrates...If this is true, shouldn't all the corals in these 200ppm tanks be mush by now? I know for a fact that they have been in the tanks for over 2 years.

 

[reefrunner69]

I've read multiple times here, that Nitrates greater than X are deadly to invertabrates...

I don't know that I've ever read this here, harmful...for sure, but not necessarily from the nitrates them selves, but from what the production of those nitrates does to the water chemistry. I will say I am quite surprised that the nitrates are that high and you can even see the corals for the algae, but there are exceptions to every rule. If I had a tank that measured that high in nitrate, I would have an algae problem without running any lights, LOL.

What was the brand of the test kit? Ask him what it measures? if it measures nitrogen nitrate it needs to be divided by 4 to remove the weight of the nitrogen, which would put him at 50ppm, if it measures nitrate, then he is one lucky sucker

 

[Hookemhorns_98]

I'm not sure the brand, but it was a little test strip he dipped into the water. He handed me the color chart and had me read it, so i'd believe it. I don't think the test strips are as accurate as other methods, but the diff'rence would me minimal. It was a test for Nitrate, and zero bad algae in the tank.

I won't say who or where, but I've read quite a few times, and heard from my LFS that Nitrates are toxic at like >50

I have found humor in the fact that I can test my water levels down to the 1,000th of a decimal point in some cases, and I'm supposed to be as exact as possible...and yet I can go to 8 different people and get 8 different reasons as to why i'm having x problem...hehehe...good think i'm exact

 

[biotoxin]

an lfs telling you another lfs is full of $hit. thats funny considering all of them ive gone to were lfs's full of college kids tellin me that 65watts would burn and bleach out the corals in my nano tank. OOOkkk kid, whatever you say. This forum is the best source for info and lsf's are best left to people who trust kids too much.

 

[reefrunner69]

I won't say who or where, but I've read quite a few times, and heard from my LFS that Nitrates are toxic at like >50

My opinion on that is stated above.

I don't think the test strips are as accurate as other methods, but the diff'rence would me minimal.

I'm not sure what they measure, that would be key to me, I would think they would be accurate (in what they measure) to about 50 ppm give or take.

 

[snapcrackler]

an lfs telling you another lfs is full of $hit. thats funny considering all of them ive gone to were lfs's full of college kids tellin me that 65watts would burn and bleach out the corals in my nano tank. OOOkkk kid, whatever you say. This forum is the best source for info and lsf's are best left to people who trust kids too much.

I hear ya.. don't forget though that there are jewels out there, for example Terry (advisor here) runs a shop.. unfortunately he is not here in the USA or that would be the first place I would go. I know it though and Terry will probably sadly tell you.. that there's always gonna be vendors/salespeople/stores that place money above all else and don't do it because they love it and are very knowledgeable.

 

[Hookemhorns_98]

all of your LFS hatred aside, bio , but regardless of their age I respect their opinion, just as I respect the opinion of all here. I hunt down as many different opinions as I can find, and somewhere in between lies a suitable answer. I am no marine biologist, so I don't know if 0 or 200 is better, but if my LFS is running a sucessful tank with 200+ Nitrates, so they can't be all that harmful...or can they?

My first reaction is "jeebus tap dancing cristo! That's a lotta nitrates!" But i'm not gonna let my nitrates go nuts because they do it...I figured i'd throw it at ya'll
I am currently keeping mine below 20 with weekly 5 gal aqua changes.

 

[biotoxin]

I dont have any "hatred" toward my local lfs, other than the fact they wana charge me $200 for a cpr bak pak 2 *laugh*. To me thats expected at a privately owned shop, raised prices and all. Its places that give bad advice about taking care of saltwater tanks. I can call and get 3 different answers from people that work at the same place. I just feel more comfortable with people that have done this as a hobby as opposed to those that do it for extra cash on the side. I appreciate their help and ive gotten great deals from local lfs's on lr and other stuff. So please dont mistake my ranting for hatred i just like to see more people enjoy sw tanks as opposed to people ripping their hair out from them

 

[reefrunner69]

i just like to see more people enjoy sw tanks as opposed to people ripping their hair out from them

Well said, and the main reason we are here, well not just SW but FW and Ponds to!!

 

[Hookemhorns_98]

just givin' you a hard time biotox I knew you were joking.

is having Nitrate 0 a bad thing? Does a reef need it?

 

[reefrunner69]

is having Nitrate 0 a bad thing? Does a reef need it?

I am not sure 0 nitrate is attanable in a closed system. We can get to a level that is immeasurable for a hobbyest test kit, but I don't think we ever get to 0. There are even some corals that would die in a 0 nutrient system, some need dirtier water for their survival, course our idea of dirty and theirs are on a different scale, LOL.

 

[cj10488]

My nitrate Is at 2ppm which is where it has been nor for months.. However I would not be worried if my nitrates went up to lets say 40ppm.. unless it happened rapidly.... I honestly dont know How I have kept my nitrates so low.. Some state that it was due to Algae in the tank.. Well all the agae is gone and has been for a few weeks and still nitrate is at 2ppm... I have tested with the reference provided with the kit and it test accurate as well.. Maybe I am just one of the lucky ones Or unlucky ones Depending on how you look at it.. I personally think that having my water that clean is causing my Elegance coral to DIE.. I have been tempted to pull it out and place it in another tank but I just think it would make it worse as the lighting on that tank Sux bad... however I dont think its as "clean" as the Main tank.. Basically its a tank where I put a few mantis shrimp in there and test it every so often Probably not as much as I should but.. All levels are at 0 with the exception if nitrates which I havent test in at least a month if not more.. I have heard that some people say that anything higher than 10 is not good and anything higher than 20 is lethal to some inverts... But as with everything else in this hobby things change from one person to another..

James

 

[biotoxin]

you want to have some nitrates and after the cycle thats probably all youll have. no nitrite/ammonia. Just checking for ph/alk/calcium/nitrates and gravity. I actually just checked my tank for nitrates and its also really high. Whats the best way to remove nitrates when it spikes up?

 

[Hookemhorns_98]

best way to lower nitrates is water change.

 

[wseaton]

I'm guessing the LFS shop in question is testing for free nitrogen and too ignorant to know the difference. I believe the conversion is to divide by 4.4 or something like that to get actual disolved ppm values that are meaningfull and toxic to marine life. I also won't bother telling you my opinion of dry test kits. The ones for Nitrate seem to be the worst.

200 ppm is a septic tank - not an aquarium.

I know a lot of established reef tanks where the owner not only uses city water, but has nitrate levels in the 20-40ppm range as well. These are also your typically large, several years old reef tanks in the 100-300 gallon range that is full of established coral and LR, but has a sole happy damsel fish swiming around. Nitrate in that case can be relatively high since all the competitors and toxic waste producing microbes have long since starved out. I got money on the tank in question here fitting that description.

This is a far cry from your typical home 70 gallon with half a dozen fish and an army of crabs, snails and shrimp all cranking out loads of ammonia and waste. In that case the byproducts of decomposition are constantly building and need to either be broken down, or diluted with water changes. My advice is to not rely on water changes to reduce nitrate and combat it biologically with a combination of healthy LR, good tank circulation, a medium sand bed, and a skimmer.

 

[Hookemhorns_98]

still...let's just use 200. If you divide that by 4.4 it's still over 40ppm. In some people's opinions, that's a LOT of nitrate. However, there are many fish, and inverts in these tanks I mentioned...not just coral.

 

[wseaton]

I want to see that same water tested with some wet chemistry.

I didn't even know there were marine test kits that could read that high.