rock rubble

[clowninround]

Before I put in all this rock rubble, I have a few questions. In my gallery is a pic of my fuge. Where the bioballs are is where I am about to put the rock rubble and on the other side. What I am thinking is, isn't this going to trap all the fish poop, ect. Or does the rock filter. The way I am seeing it, it would be alot like crushed coral just bigger. Anyways, if anyone would like to debate this with me, please do because I do not want to figure it out before putting it in.

TIA

[lando]

the rubble chambers will collect detritus. I have about 40lbs rubble in my sump and I cringe everytime I look at all of the detritus in there. It gets cleaned completely twice a year. With enough biological filtration it is not a problem. I have a few reef hermits in my sump and, even with the detritus collection, my nitrates are less then 2.5.

[clowninround]

See thats my issue, if you look at my set up, there is really no room for me to clean it. I can't even syphon it. Either way, rock or no rock the detris will acculmilate. It will just be harder to clen with the rock rubble. What if I put the rock in the middle of the sump, will it have the same effect? Any ideas for cleaning that chamber?

[lando]

will it have the same effect?

Yes, it will have the same effect. I guess the bottom line is that detritus will collect no matter what. You can put a foam filter on the intake tube from the tank to catch the big chunks. that will help. The idea is that the natural biological filtration of the LR or rubble will take care of the nitrates the detritus produces.

Any ideas for cleaning that chamber?

Not sure if you would need to or want to if you are planninga fuge.

[clowninround]

Cool thanks Lando, this helps a lot.

[zuzecawi]

So what's the difference between the detritus collected on the rubble vs. that on bio-balls? Isn't the function of the bioballs to serve as a platform grow the same types of bacteria as are present on live rock?

[lando]

So what's the difference between the detritus collected on the rubble vs. that on bio-balls?

Nothing. Bioballs and LR rubble will collect the same detritus. It is the filter media that makes the difference. Bioballs are desinged to work in an aerobic (with oxygen) environment. This is why they are so effective at removing nitrite. They do a wonderful job at converting nitrite to nitrate. The bacteria that remove the nitrate do best in a anaerobic (without oxygen) envirornment. This is whyLR and LR rubble is so important. It harbors denitrafing bacteria. Basicaly, LR rubble takes the nitrogen cycle a level farther then bioballs do. I am no biologist so I hope this makes sense.

[zuzecawi]

Perfect sense. So, theoretically, a combination of rock - n- bioballs would balance out? (trying to figure out this thing)

[RMPD109]

I would say that all LR rubble would be better. A mixture would just make that much more nitrate for the rubble and DSB to remove. The DSB will be the primary de nitrificating bacteria. The rubble will just help and the bioballs will do nothing to help(only making more nitrates to remove).

[lando]

So, theoretically, a combination of rock - n- bioballs would balance out?

Yes, providing you had evough LR to handle the nitrates produced by the bioballs. With 2lbs/gal, light feedings and regular water changes you would be just fine. However, LR rubble is a much better filter media then are bioballs, so the rubble is still a good choice. Here is an example. My first reef tank was a 38gal. tank with an Emperor 400 filter. The filter comes with bio-wheels (they provide the same aerobic environment for bacteria as bioballs). All I heard about was how bad biowheels where for a reef tank because they tend to cause high nitrates. I left my biowheels on the filter and never had any trouble with nitrates. That is becuase I have well over 80lbs of LR in the tank. So bioballs will work just fine, providing you have plenty of LR in the tank.

[EJS4]

It will help to bear in mind the Denitrification process.
Ammonia--->Nitrites---->Nitrates---->Nitrogen
Nitrites to nitrates is an aerobic process
Nitrates to nitrogen is an anaerobic process
When the process is in balance there is never a build up. bio-wheels are not the problem, Overstocking is the problem. More wastes being produced for what the tank can handle. If they did not have bio-wheels in on their filters they would have a build up of nitrites or ammonia. The system backs up at the weakest point. As Lando points out one solution is to increase the amount of anaerobic bacteria with LR, the other is to reduce the stock to what the tank can support.

[zuzecawi]

As Lando points out one solution is to increase the amount of anaerobic bacteria with LR, the other is to reduce the stock to what the tank can support.

Just bein devils advocate here, but seems nitrates aren't only caused by overstocking.

[lando]

Just bein devils advocate here, but seems nitrates aren't only caused by overstocking.

You are correct. they can be a sign of over-feeding or a poor water source. However, as EJS4 points out, overstocking is the biggest culpret. Keep in mind, the better the biofiltration, the more "overstocking" you can get away with.