Thinking of doing an 'odd ball' reef....

[Scottyhorse]

Hello I am new to the world of fish keeping. Just finished cycling my 25 gal and adding fish tomorrow!

Anyways, I have always been fascinated with marine fish, especially the odd balls. So I was just sitting her at the computer looking at SW fish online, and I thought, I want to do a SW reef tank. Uh oh...

Anyways, I was thinking either a 20 long or 40 breeder. I'll probably go with the 20 long because I think it will be easier to find and I already have a space for it, but I may be getting a rack that can fit 40 breeder tanks.. We'll see...

This tank it is going to be really weird compared to other reef tanks, but it's what I want to do. I have NO idea what all I need for this, and I would also like to not have a sump if it is possible to get away W/O one.

This tank ( I think) will be mostly corals, inverts, and sea cucumbers and such. I am thinking of only doing 1 or 2 fish. Odd ones of course!
Fish I like are:

Mandarin Gobies
Sargassum Fish
Wartskin Angler
Clown Fish (I know they are not add but I do like them)
Dragonets/Blennys/Gobies
Filefish
Lion Fish (Dwarf of course)
Puffers
Scorpion Fish

I know I can't have all of these ( of course) but I would like to know 1 or 2 of them I could do. I know it also depends on the tank size, too! Has to be reef an invert safe. The fish I would like to have most are the Mandarin Gobies, Filefish and Puffer Fish.

For inverts I am thinking:

Electric Blue Hermit Crab
Dwarf Yellow Tip Hermit Crab
Sea Cucumber, Yellow
Feather Dusters
Lettuce Sea Slug
Blue Velvet Nudibrach
Sexy Shrimp
Harlequin Shrimp
Camel Shrimp
Turbo Snails

Now the more I think about it I should really do the 40 gallon, huh?

For corals, I am completely lost... I have no idea what I want, what is not easily killed, etc. Some that I like Mushroom coral, Tree Coral, Polyps, Sea Fans, Candy Cane coral, SPS corals, LPS Corals, I don't know. You tell me what to do LOL

So for equipment, what will I need? I know I need a heater, lights, filter, protein skimmer, what works best? Also, this is going to be put together with my birthday money. I'll probably get $300 or so from my parents, and $50-$100 from my grandparents. Is the enough to start a reef?

I know I am forgetting things, but this will get me started.

Thank you!

 

[CharlieKlein]

About the money, a tank and good lights, skimmer and all, plus the fish and live rocks may get pretty expensive.

 

[TheTodd]

Wow...lots of info on that post ...so you have a 25g cycled and are adding fish tomorrow? What fish are you getting? What's the gameplan for that tank? A 20 is going to limit your stocking options. Go to sites like liveaquaria.com to see info on fish, suggested tank sizes, compatability, etc.

Then you are talking about a 20 or maybe a 40g? If you are going reef, I would think $300 is not going to go too far. Reefs cost a lot just in proper lighting and filtration.

 

[Scottyhorse]

Wow...lots of info on that post ...so you have a 25g cycled and are adding fish tomorrow? What fish are you getting? What's the gameplan for that tank? A 20 is going to limit your stocking options. Go to sites like liveaquaria.com to see info on fish, suggested tank sizes, compatability, etc.

Then you are talking about a 20 or maybe a 40g? If you are going reef, I would think $300 is not going to go too far. Reefs cost a lot just in proper lighting and filtration.

Yes, the 25 is a FW. I have a build thread you can cheack out so I don't gunk this thread up I have been looking a liveaquaria and that pet place looking at fish and such, but first hand experiences from here are better.

I would really love to go with a reef but yes I agree it would be VERY expensive... Is there a way I could do a FOWLR with some coral?
Like I said I don't know squat really about SW so I am depending on you guys!

 

[Scottyhorse]

Anyone else have any tips?

 

[Godfrey]

I would start out slowlywith it. the fish you want except maybe the clowns ar all fish you should have an established system for. You can start out with the basics and and build up from there which you'll have to do on that type of budget

 

[Scottyhorse]

Okay.. So what kind of lights would I need?

Would this work for a ten gal?

http://www.aquatraders.com/20-inch-4x18W-T5-Aquarium-Light-Fixture-p/52302.htm

 

[Bearchumjs]

Okay.. So what kind of lights would I need?

Would this work for a ten gal?

http://www.aquatraders.com/20-inch-4x18W-T5-Aquarium-Light-Fixture-p/52302.htm

Are you getting a 10 gallon? If you have room for the 40 gal I say go for the 40! Petco in Richland is having the $1 per gallon sale til the end of this month. For the fish you have mentioned liking, a 40 gallon gives you many more options than a 10 gallon. Mandarins and anglers can be difficult to train to accept frozen food. I don't know that from experience, just from reading other people's experiences.

I think for a 40 gallon reef you will need:

a protein skimmer. They make some protein skimmer/refugium combos.

45-50lbs of rock (a mix of live and base would work).

Sand. I use Pool Filter Sand. It's inexpensive, but lacks the bits and pieces of shells that aragonite sand has. Live sand isn't necessary. Especially if you get a few pieces of live rock.

Power heads for flow. You'd be best to have at least 2.

A heater. Probably a 200-300 watt heater.

A refractometer. The hydrometers are ok, but refractometers are best. I really need to get one.

An RODI unit. You don't want to use tap water in your tank. It has to much organic stuff in it and will cause algae and cyano problems galore. You can also use RO water from the grocery store, but for best results and the fact that you don't have to drive to get water, RODI units are the way to go.

Really good lights. If you want to do SPS you need high lighting. For that I am not alot of help but there are so many people on here that can help you with that.

 

[Scottyhorse]

Yeah, after looking at costs I am going with a ten gal

Maybe when I have a job I will do a bigger reef! Haha!

 

[TheTodd]

That 10g will really limit what you can put in there and you've got to keep a very close eye on the parameters, as they can change easily and quickly in such a small tank. Reefs need consistency.

 

[Scottyhorse]

That 10g will really limit what you can put in there and you've got to keep a very close eye on the parameters, as they can change easily and quickly in such a small tank. Reefs need consistency.

That's fine with me. How often would I need to test parameters?
Also, for water changes, I am not going to run a skimmer, and maybe a HOB filter with rubble in it, maybe not, so how much water would I change a week? 1 gal? 2?

For fish I am thinking a goby, and one other fish. I would LOVE to have a three spot damsel, but I read they are super aggressive and best alone. Is this true?
I also love cardinal fish but they need schools, correct?
So what is one other fish I should add?

Would those lights work for basic corals?

For inverts I am thinking

Pom Pom or Emerald Crab, then a few basic Hermits. How many crabs?

Snails, turbos and nassurias? How do you spell that? How many snails?

Shrimp like Sexy Shrimp, Camel Shrimp, Peppermint Shrimp, what else and how many?

Do nudibranchs eat corals? I would love to have a yellow sea cucumber and a lettuce sea hare!

 

[Bearchumjs]

That's fine with me. How often would I need to test parameters?

***I test once a week. Top off with fresh water daily, sometimes twice daily.

Also, for water changes, I am not going to run a skimmer, and maybe a HOB filter with rubble in it, maybe not, so how much water would I change a week? 1 gal? 2?

***You don't need a skimmer on a ten gal. I use an HoB (2 actually) on my 10 and have rubble in them. 2-3 gallons are my pwc's.

For fish I am thinking a goby, and one other fish. I would LOVE to have a three spot damsel, but I read they are super aggressive and best alone. Is this true?

***Damsels are very aggressive. That's why I chose 1. Impossible to over stock the tank now. if you love the 3 spot considering getting only 1 fish, a variety of inverts and lots of coral.

I also love cardinal fish but they need schools, correct?

***Cardinals get too big and like groups

So what is one other fish I should add?

***Clown goby, neon goby, firefish. The choices are limited.

Would those lights work for basic corals?

***I'll have to take another look at them.

For inverts I am thinking Pom Pom or Emerald Crab, then a few basic Hermits. How many crabs?

***I have 4 hermits and an emerald. I want a Pom Pom too!

Snails, turbos and nassurias? How do you spell that? How many snails?

***Turbos I think may get too large. I have two nassarius but after the tank is established you could do maybe 5? Cerith snails are good. 5 of those once you have stuff for them to eat.

Shrimp like Sexy Shrimp, Camel Shrimp, Peppermint Shrimp, what else and how many?

***3 sexy and 1 peppermint. You could also get a skunk cleaner shrimp. I'm not familiar with camel shrimp.

Do nudibranchs eat corals? I would love to have a yellow sea cucumber and a lettuce sea hare!

***Those are iffy. I don't know if a 10 gal is suitable and if something goes wrong and they die, I believe they will nuke the whole tank.

 

[shady3210]

Ok I would skip the 10 it limits you way too much and wont be much of a price difference between it and a 20. Have you thought about looking on craigslist for a used biocube/nano cube all in one system? Look for something 20+ gallons.

Of the fish listed a lot are not invert friendly. The Puffers and File Fish will kill most inverts. The Anglers, Lionfish(need the 40 gallon for a dwarf), and Scorpion fish may eat inverts mostly shrimp but snails and crabs can be ok. Mandarins/Dragonets need an established tank and are tough to get to eat prepared food I would pass.

So with all that said I would do a 20-30 gallon then decide if you want a community tank(clowns, gobies ect..) or a species tank(Anglers, Scorps). Start out with FOWLR and move to reef once you get everything stable and can save up for the lights.

 

[Scottyhorse]

Yes see that's why I was thinking of a ten gal. I'm okay with only doing one or two fish but at some point I would like to do a large FOWLR (like 55 gallons) but I could not afford to do that right now. Last night I came up with a total cost for a ten gallon and it would be about $550 or a little less but I am sure I shouldn't add as much as I was thinking so it would probably be more around 450-500.

I've been looking on CL and I am sure Bear can agree with this there is not a lot in our area! So it will have to be new. Trust me I would love a nano cube!

Bear-

Thanks for that info, very helpful I decided not to do a 3 spot damsel because they are so aggressive and loose their color over time if what I read is true. But the baby ones at Petco are so cute!!

 

[Wendy68]

You should save your money and go straight for the 55. The stuff you get for the 10 won't work WHEN you upgrade, and believe me you WILL upgrade faster than you think, on the 55. Save buying stuff twice, save the money, and just the right stuff first. Been where you are and if I had known then what I know now I could have saved myself TONS of money. You won't regret it.

 

[Scottyhorse]

You should save your money and go straight for the 55. The stuff you get for the 10 won't work WHEN you upgrade, and believe me you WILL upgrade faster than you think, on the 55. Save buying stuff twice, save the money, and just the right stuff first. Been where you are and if I had known then what I know now I could have saved myself TONS of money. You won't regret it.

Okay, let me say this. I CAN'T have a large tank right now. I don't have the time or money to do it. Trust me, if I could, it would have been set up by now

Yes I know that a ten gal nano will take a lot of maintenance and effort, but I don't know how I could take care of a 55 gallon. Even if it is a FOWLR. How much would that cost, anyways? See I could probably do a 55 FOWLR if I didn't need a skimmer and live rock!

 

[Psychocircus91]

Okay, let me say this. I CAN'T have a large tank right now. I don't have the time or money to do it. Trust me, if I could, it would have been set up by now

Yes I know that a ten gal nano will take a lot of maintenance and effort, but I don't know how I could take care of a 55 gallon. Even if it is a FOWLR. How much would that cost, anyways? See I could probably do a 55 FOWLR if I didn't need a skimmer and live rock!

You dont NEED a skimmer. Especially not for a fowlr. It makes keeping nutrient levels down easier, but in a 55, you could perform enough water changes to keep them in check. You also can get base rock instead of live rock which is very cheap. A 10 gallon will be no less time consuming than a 55.

 

[Scottyhorse]

Really? So how much do you think a 55 fowlr would cost?

 

[TheTodd]

Agreed...don't need a skimmer or live rock for a FOWLR. I've got a 75g acrylic FOWLR...I used lava rock...85+ lbs for about $3.00! Paid $150 used on CL...had stand and hood....it has the built-in filtration in back (no sump cost)....paid another $100 for the light and $150 for a chiller (probably not necessary in most areas). I'm in under $400.

I'd at least shoot for a 20g. More room for error and more possibilities for inhabitants. Could not cost that much more.

 

[Bearchumjs]

Agreed...don't need a skimmer or live rock for a FOWLR. I've got a 75g acrylic FOWLR...I used lava rock...85+ lbs for about $3.00! Paid $150 used on CL...had stand and hood....it has the built-in filtration in back (no sump cost)....paid another $100 for the light and $150 for a chiller (probably not necessary in most areas). I'm in under $400.

I'd at least shoot for a 20g. More room for error and more possibilities for inhabitants. Could not cost that much more.

If you want to do a 55 gal fish only that would cost alot less. There's a 50 gal on Craigslist right now for *make an offer*. I'd start at $75 and see what he says. Might be worth the trip. All you'd need is saltwater, sand, live rock and fish.

http://kpr.craigslist.org/for/3575955673.html