Too much to add at once?

[canyon15]

My cycle is coming to an end and now i am thinking about starting with a clean up crew to put in first and closely followed, after spike in levels after adding the crew, two clowns . I want to put 15 snails 12 blue leg hermits and 2 red scarlet hermits ( all in a package offered a good price as compared to LFS). My question is that to much livestock to add at once?

[sango]

You can ad the clean up crew, but there is really nothing to clean up if your cycle is just coming to an end. You can add the two clown fish and the crew at the same time or just add the clowns then the clean up crew.

[electrikat]

I would say not too much on the cleaners but what are they going to clean? Inverts usually don't affect ammonia levels a huge amount. You will probably have to feed them something unless you have a lot of algae in your tank already.

[reefrunner69]

I wouldn't add the two clowns until the tank has matured a bit more.

[tecwzrd]

First off a 20 gal tank is too small for two clowns. (see the fish calculator) One clown or two very small fish is about all a 20 gal can hold. Doesn’t matter how many inverts you put in within reason. I’d make is a nano reef tank personally and forgo any fish or just have one if it were my tank.

Also when you do add your clown I’d try to get a “tank raised clown� since they are much hardier than wild caught. Trying to save money when buying sw fish usually leads to improperly caught or kept fish IMO. Best to find a good lfs and observer your prospective purchase for at least a couple of days to make sure it isn’t sick and is eating well. Most lfs will let you buy the fish and keep it in a separate tank at the lfs for observation for a week or two. If they don’t I personally don’t deal with them. Especially with higher priced fish.

The use of a qt tank is highly recommended in case your new fish does become sick so you don’t have to dose the main tank which can adversely affect your inverts.

When you do add them to the qt tank and main the preferable method is to drip acclimate them for a couple of hours. If you do that for all your livestock you will have much better results in the long run. I acclimate my snails for 4+ hours.

HTH

[sango]

A 20 gal tank is plenty of room for two clowns and a couple of smaller fish.

[tecwzrd]

Sure once he/she is more experienced, for just starting out (which they are) it’s better to start off slow. And personally I think two clowns max or two other fish even after they become more accustomed to sw fish keeping. Sure I’ve seen 4 fish in a 20 long but personally for the health of the fish, territorial issues, and tank maintenance I prefer to limit it.

Coming from the one who started the thread "How over stocked are you??" I wouldn’t expect much less though.

[sango]

I can see that you really dont know too much about keeping fish. Just because I made that post does not mean anything. You need to do more research about fish keeping if your going to make a statement like "two clown fish are too much for a 20 gal tank" what a joke that is...... Oh and just to let you know clown fish are very hardy.

[Fluff]

Lets keep this thread on topic. If you two want to wage war on each other, take it to pm. I has no place here.
My two cents is, two clowns can live happily in a 20g tank. Smaller clowns like false percula would be suggested. Also, if the tank is just finished it's cycle, it needs an ammonia source to feed the bacteria you just worked so hard to build. The way to do that is to add a fish. If adding clowns, I would add them together but add tiny ones and watch your parameters closely over the next week or two for any spikes and have water ready for a pwc if necessary. I agree it may be to soon for a cleanup crew as there isn't much for them to clean up. Especially if your planning to buy a package deal. I'd add them slowly as necessary or give the tank time to mature a bit before adding them.

[tecwzrd]

Originally Posted by sango

I can see that you really dont know too much about keeping fish.

I’ve been “keeping fish� for 25 years and have had fw, sw, & brackish setups from sizes of 10 gal to 100 gal. Personally I feel my answers are well thought out and researched but you are entitled to your opinion as well.

Originally Posted by sango

Just because I made that post does not mean anything.

It had to mean something since you did post, I just stated my opinion as did you.

Originally Posted by sango

You need to do more research about fish keeping if your going to make a statement like "two clown fish are too much for a 20 gal tank" what a joke that is...... Oh and just to let you know clown fish are very hardy.

Tank raised clownfish are very hardy & wild caught can be less, just because a fish is “hardy� doesn’t mean that you should subject it to less than perfect conditions. You wouldn’t want to be crammed into a bathroom with 3 other people for the rest of your life and I don’t think fish do either. (no matter how well you adjust to the stench, confined space)

I’m not belittling your opinion, just trying to provide another view.

We are all entitled to our opinions and I merely gave mine as an option also. Ultimately it’s up to each individual to responsible stock their tank.

[malkore]

No more outbursts or condescending comments, ok?

I too, think that 2 false percs would be fine in a 20gal, but that'd also be the max. stocking level for fish. Add an appropriate starfish, shrimp, corals (if lighting permits) and you'd have a nice setup.

And as Fluff points out, a cleanup crew isn't needed just yet, and while a snail or two doesn't add much to the bioload, adding a 'package' gives a noticiable increase in bioload due to shear number of living creatures added.

This isn't a very quick, speedy hobby...the slower and more methodically you go about things, the better the chance for 'easy success'.

[tecwzrd]

Sorry sango, Fluff, & malkore for getting personal. I’ll try to stay “on topic�. My definition of overstocked is much more than most and I’m sorry.

[fishfreek]

My definition of overstocked is very simple.

If all your pumps fail for a period of 12 or more hours will your fish sufficate due to lack of oxygen? If so your overstocked no mater how well your water conditions are when all your equipment is running.

With that said I also feel that 2-3 fish would be the max for a 20 gal tank. Given its a 20 long you can technicly get by with more fish than a 20 H because there is more surface area for gas exchange but you also must take into account the fish's agressivness as a factor when it comes to overcrowding.

I hold to the school of understocking. As an example I have a single yellow tail damsel in my 20H, a flame angel, bicolor damsel, yellow tang in my 75 and in my 80 a powder blue tang, coral beauty, hawk eye goby, and two yellow gobies. I have seen people have all those fish in a single 75 before. If your pumps work than they can live with out issues but if your pumps fail for a period of a few hours you will have deaths.

[lando]

While agree that two smaller-species clowns will do just fine in a 20gal, I also suggest NOT adding them at the same time in a newly cycled tank. A 20gal is not all that big and the slower you take things the better off you will be. Add one, test water parameters daily for a couple of weeks and, if all is okay, add the second one. I would say you could add maximum two more fish to the tank over time for a total of four (depending on species). A royal gramma and purple firefish would be nice. A sixline wrasse is another option.