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05-14-2007, 07:10 PM
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#1
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member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 26
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will live rock grow stuff after time with the right lighting
My live rock I have is really new and not very cool looking. I have the right lighting for a reef tank but keep getting told my puffer is not reef compatable. After time will the live rock change colors or grow fungus or mushrooms or anything even close to resembling a reef like look. I know that at my lfs they have seasoned live rock which is a blueish color. Can anyone shed some light on the subject.( no pun intended)
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05-14-2007, 07:28 PM
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#2
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Aquarium Advice Addict
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: philadelphia. PA.
Posts: 2,679
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W/ time coralline algae will cover the rock giving it color, usually mostly purple under artificial lighting(assuming you got decent LR w/ some to begin with). Other animals will show up w/ time as well like pods, mini-stars, worms. It can take months though. Many of these animals come out at night, so using a flash light to look may help. Using a red light/light cover prevents them from seeing the light as well, and hiding.
Where is the rock from a LFS or online?
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Mike
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05-14-2007, 07:38 PM
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#3
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member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 26
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lfs
the live rock is from a lfs I am sceptical to order live rock from the internet cause you never know what you are going to get??? at least at the lfs you can see it before you buy it but they rarely have a decent selection
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05-14-2007, 07:49 PM
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#4
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Aquarium Advice Addict
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: philadelphia. PA.
Posts: 2,679
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I've found LR from online to have more life than that from many LFS's. FWIW I would not hesitate to recommend LR from a few online sites.
As long as you think it's decent LR and keep water chemistry, etc. inline you should see things pop up w/ some time.
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Mike
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05-15-2007, 07:34 AM
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#5
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Aquarium Advice Regular
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Rotterdam NY
Posts: 60
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I throw my 2 pennies in as well.
I got my LR from an online site and it was far better than what the LFS had to offer and like a million dollars cheaper. I have had it for a couple months now and its starting to take color and looks alot better but it does take time.
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05-15-2007, 09:30 AM
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#6
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AA Team Emeritus
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,858
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You can also mix Base Rock with LR to save even more money. I bought 150Lbs from him and am very pleased.
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05-15-2007, 01:14 PM
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#7
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member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 26
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will the base rock eventuall become live rock and if so how long does that take and is it pretty much the same rock???
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05-15-2007, 01:20 PM
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#8
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AA Team Emeritus
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,858
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He's got Fiji and Tonga, the Fiji is very pourous. The more nooks and crannies, the better. Remember "live" means the beneficial bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrAtes. The critters are just a bonus.
It will become live, and coraline will grow on it as well. How long it takes to grow depends on the water chemistry in your tank.
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05-15-2007, 03:17 PM
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#9
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SW REEF 20+ YEARS
Community Admin
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 38,699
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by roka64
Remember "live" means the beneficial bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrAtes.
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If you are looking for mushrooms and polyps sometimes they are on LR but not all the time. You`ll need to buy some at your LFS to be sure they are in your tank.
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05-15-2007, 03:45 PM
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#10
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Aquarium Advice Addict
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: philadelphia. PA.
Posts: 2,679
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Quote:
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You can also mix Base Rock with LR to save even more money
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His prices have gone too high for my taste. For only 20-30 more you can get actual LR.
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Remember "live" means the beneficial bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrAtes. The critters are just a bonus.
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I disagree. When paying good $$$ for LR you pay not for surface area, but for all the little beneficial critters that come w/ it. Anything else is just bio-media. LR/ LS to me means more than just bacteria cultures. You can maintain them w/ simple wet/dry filters used years ago. "Live" means more, in terms of filtration benefits, than just bacteria when talking LR/ LS (I'm not talking coral hitchhikers those are a bonus, just the critters/bugs). That is why those bagged LS's are useless. Yes there is bacteria, but there are no pods, worms, mini-stars, etc to eat detritus and move sand to keep it clean. JMO
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Mike
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05-15-2007, 04:10 PM
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#11
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AA Team Emeritus
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,858
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MT79
His prices have gone too high for my taste. For only 20-30 more you can get actual LR. |
$2.52 for 50Lbs is no where close to my LFS at $8 per LBs
$2.52x150=$378
vs.
$8x150=$1200 +Tax
I do agree his prices have gone up, but I also got my shipping for free.
Ok, you got me on a technicality, I should have said base rock will become "live"...lol....(then translate/insert "live" to IMO,FWIW,JMHO...)...are bristleworms bad? lol....
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05-15-2007, 04:36 PM
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#12
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Aquarium Advice Addict
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: philadelphia. PA.
Posts: 2,679
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Online you can get 45 lbs LR for right around $160 shipped, on a couple sites.
50 lbs base from marco is $126-175(w/out shipping).
His prices have definitely gone up. I was looking to buy some BEFORE the increase. Looks like good rock, but for the new price I'll take live instead. The site actually used to have free samples.
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are bristleworms bad? lol....
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No. They are great scavengers/detrivores. Sometimes if they get very big they can cause issues, but not normally. Some people are quick to yank them but I think many people w/ experience w/ them would agree they are very beneficial critters to have.
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I should have said base rock will become "live"...lol....(then translate/insert "live" to IMO,FWIW,JMHO...)...
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I'm not trying to pick on anyone or start an argument, but I think "live" is more than just bacteria when talking rock especially. That could be misleading to someone new, looking at that LR at the LFS for $10 a lb w/ no life on it. Good LR provides many, many more benefits than just surface area.
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Mike
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05-15-2007, 05:05 PM
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#13
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SW REEF 20+ YEARS
Community Admin
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 38,699
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Well we will just have to agree to disagree then. IMO the live part means the nitrifying bacteria that run the cycle. The critters and worms and other stuff are in LR but not everybody has the same thing but everybody does have the nitrifying bacteria on your rock if it is cured. You could put all BR in your tank and it will become live over time with no critters in it. That is IMO and IME.
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05-15-2007, 05:13 PM
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#14
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Aquarium Advice Addict
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: philadelphia. PA.
Posts: 2,679
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Quote:
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You could put all BR in your tank and it will become live over time with no critters in it
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It will provide space for nitrifying bacteria, but thats it. I would not consider that a tank w/ LR. LR provides much more(bugs to eat excess food/detritus, natural plankton chains for coral and other filter feeders, etc). That is why you need to seed base rock w/ LR- for the critters. NOT the bacteria. The bacteria occurs naturally- why pay for that? You could use cinder bricks and get the same effect.
Your definition is a very loose one IMO, and doesn't encompass all the benefits of actual LR from a reef.
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Mike
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05-15-2007, 05:34 PM
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#15
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SW REEF 20+ YEARS
Community Admin
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 38,699
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Your opinion is yours and mine is mine.
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05-15-2007, 05:51 PM
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#16
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Aquarium Advice Addict
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: philadelphia. PA.
Posts: 2,679
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^ Right. And the readers can decide which makes more sense.
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Mike
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05-15-2007, 06:39 PM
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#17
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Aquarium Advice Addict
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Savage, MN
Posts: 7,889
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I tend to look at what will benefit my tank. I began using "live" rock soley for natual biological filtration. IMO, that is what the tank actually benefits from. Sure, sponges, macro, coraline and the like are wonderful visable life to have and add so much TO the tank. However, they do not comepete in what DO for the tank. As mentioned, the other stuff is not without value for sure, but would LR really be a as big of a benefit to the tank if you took out the bacteria cultivation property?
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You could use cinder bricks and get the same effect.
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Very true...but it is kind of an "apples to oranges" comparison. If the point is going natual, then cinder blocks do not really fit the bill.
In short...I think a tank will be healthier with lots of drab-looking LR in it then with a small amount of LR that has a variety of visable life on it.
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Some people are like slinkies...they serve no real purpose yet can still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs!:p
Have a great day! Brian
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05-15-2007, 06:52 PM
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#18
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Aquarium Advice Addict
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: philadelphia. PA.
Posts: 2,679
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Quote:
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tank. I began using "live" rock soley for natual biological filtration
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That encompasses a lot. Eating detritus/excess food, as the pods, worms, etc. do, is a form of biological filtration.
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but would LR really be a as big of a benefit to the tank if you took out the bacteria cultivation property?
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Would it be a benefit if all the critters were removed? Not so much- only for converting nitrogenous waste into nitrate. It would be like an inefficient wet/dry or bio-balls. Both are basically obsolete on reefs b/c LR, and all the animals it comes w/, works better.
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with lots of drab-looking LR in it then with a small amount of LR that has a variety of visable life on it.
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Seed the base rock w/ LR, at least 30% LR is the general recommendation, and you have the best of both worlds.
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Mike
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05-15-2007, 06:53 PM
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#19
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Aquarium Advice Addict
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Savage, MN
Posts: 7,889
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Quote:
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Seed the base rock w/ LR, at least 30% LR is the general recommendation, and you have the best of both worlds
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Now that is some advice I think we can all agree on.
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Some people are like slinkies...they serve no real purpose yet can still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs!:p
Have a great day! Brian
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05-15-2007, 07:02 PM
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#20
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AA Team Emeritus
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 13,858
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ok, this is my thought process:
cured/cycled=live
If you agree to that equation, your logic states:
my cured base rock is not live because it does not contain "bonus critters" on it
uncured rock can be live because it may have the "bonus critters" even tho it doesn't have the beneficial bacteria on it...
so where in the equation does the "live" come into play?
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