4th week of fishless cycle...ammonia hasn't moved and no nitrites

[Gunk]

Ok so I'm entering my fifth week of fishless cycle. Dosed on 1/17/11 with ace hardware janitorial ammonia recommended here and other places to approximately 5.0 according to API Master Kit. It is now 2/20/11. Definitely not close to 8 but more than 4, as the test kit only has 4 then skips to 8. So I think the ammonia has went down a little bit. I'd say it's a little under 4 but not much. Still have 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates. Other than testing I have done nothing else except add a gallon of water every 10 days or so to compensate for evaporation and I treated it with Aqueon water conditioner first that says eliminates chlorine and chloramines amongst other things. So its been a month now and no movement. Is everything OK? Should I just continue to wait or do something else? Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[ejaramillo01]

Do you remember the ppm of ammonia after the first dose?

If your reading was higher that 4 ppm my recommendation is to do a PWC, maybe 30% to try to reduce the ppm of ammonia to maximum of 4. Higher levels of ammonia sometimes stall the cycle, and a water change some times also trigger the cycle.

Also I don't know the contents of the Aqueon water conditioner, I always suggest to use Prime, because the Prime conditioner even when binds the ammonia, keep it in a form ready available for the bacteria to use.

Hope this helps you

 

[ChelseaLake]

Is there an ammonia neutralizer in your conditioner?

I know some of these additives neutralize your ammonia, but still give readings.

 

[jsoong]

All (modern) conditioner binds ammonia. <That is due to the use of chloramines as disinfectant. The dechlor breaks that to ammonia & chlorine, so the dechlor has to bind both.> However, bound ammonia is still available to the biofilter, so the presence of conditioner will not stall the cycle.

Few things to check:
1. Is the ammonia reading accurate? How much ammonia (& what concentration) did you added? Is the calculated concentration in the tank in the ball park of your measured level? An overdose of ammonia will stall the cycle.
2. Is your tank super clean? Did you disinfect everything with bleach before you start? If you have essentially a sterile setup, the bacteria will have a hard time finding a way into the tank! You can consider seeding the tank if you have access to a healthy tank. Another option is to buy a cheap plant from your lfs & put it in. <There will be bacteria on the plant, esp. if the plant comes form a tank with fish.> a final old-school method is to get a bit of dirt into the tank. <A little bit of clean dirt form the garden - or better yet sediment form a pond.>
3. What is the temperature? A cold tank will take much longer to get going than warm.

 

[Gunk]

Do you remember the ppm of ammonia after the first dose?

If your reading was higher that 4 ppm my recommendation is to do a PWC, maybe 30% to try to reduce the ppm of ammonia to maximum of 4. Higher levels of ammonia sometimes stall the cycle, and a water change some times also trigger the cycle.

Also I don't know the contents of the Aqueon water conditioner, I always suggest to use Prime, because the Prime conditioner even when binds the ammonia, keep it in a form ready available for the bacteria to use.

Hope this helps you

Approximately between 4 and 6. The color wasn't even close to 8.

All (modern) conditioner binds ammonia. <That is due to the use of chloramines as disinfectant. The dechlor breaks that to ammonia & chlorine, so the dechlor has to bind both.> However, bound ammonia is still available to the biofilter, so the presence of conditioner will not stall the cycle.

Few things to check:
1. Is the ammonia reading accurate? How much ammonia (& what concentration) did you added? Is the calculated concentration in the tank in the ball park of your measured level? An overdose of ammonia will stall the cycle.
2. Is your tank super clean? Did you disinfect everything with bleach before you start? If you have essentially a sterile setup, the bacteria will have a hard time finding a way into the tank! You can consider seeding the tank if you have access to a healthy tank. Another option is to buy a cheap plant from your lfs & put it in. <There will be bacteria on the plant, esp. if the plant comes form a tank with fish.> a final old-school method is to get a bit of dirt into the tank. <A little bit of clean dirt form the garden - or better yet sediment form a pond.>
3. What is the temperature? A cold tank will take much longer to get going than warm.

I just added a capful of the Ace Brand Janitorial strength. Didn't bleach tank or anything and have had temp at 82 the whole time. I just came from my Dads house. He got a tank 2 weeks after me and i did the exact same thing to his as I did to mine. Right now he has .25 ammonia, off the chart nitrites and 20ppm nitrates and its only been about 10-14 days that the ammonia was in there!! Just now I put about half the dose that i originally put in his to make sure his ammonia stays up a bit around 2-3. The only thing different I did originally is i put a capful of ammonia in my 29gal and the same amount in his 46gal. Our readings looked the same after one day. Now I'm completely stumped as to what happened with mine. I guess i will do a 100% water change and try using half a capful instead of a full capful this time and see what happens. What do you guys think?

 

[ejaramillo01]

Just do a 50% water change, and wait

Let's see how evolves

 

[Gunk]

Ok thats what I'm gonna do tonight. The only thing that seems to make any sense is that I put to much ammonia although my readings were never that high, 5-6 tops.

 

[jsoong]

Some kits don't read high levels well. The kits are really meant to detect ammonia - a yes/no type answer.

If you put the same amount in a 46 & it reads the same as your 29 ... your test is suspect. I agree that doing a 50% pwc & seeing what happens is a good idea.

 

[Gunk]

I did a 50% water change and tested about an hour later. Ammonia is at approximately 1 now. So I guess I will just leave it there for the time being and keep testing daily and see what happens. If I don't see any change in 10 days I will add a little more ammonia, gradually this time with a dropper to get it up unless you guys think I should add more now. Let me know please. Thanks again

 

[jsoong]

Something isn't kosher ... You started with 5-6, did a 50% change & got a reading of 1?

Either your reading is wrong, or your tank finally started to eat the ammonia.

You might want to bump the level up to 2-3 tomorrow ... esp. if you are reading less than 1.

Incidentally - Ace ammonia is 10% = 10g/100ml
To increase your tank by 1 ppm (mg/l) you need ~100 mg (tank is 29 gal or just over 100 l of water)
So you need to add 1 ml of the solution. <Use a medicine syringe/measuring spoon, or approximate as 1/4 teaspoon is 1.25ml.>

 

[ejaramillo01]

Agree with Jasong, cycling with 1ppm ammonia now could be low, be sure of your reading, and if you confirm that is 1ppm, then increase to 3ppm, maximum 4

And then wait and keep reading, the water change that you did will also help to hopefully kick the cycle .

 

[Gunk]

Something isn't kosher ... You started with 5-6, did a 50% change & got a reading of 1?

Either your reading is wrong, or your tank finally started to eat the ammonia.

You might want to bump the level up to 2-3 tomorrow ... esp. if you are reading less than 1.

Incidentally - Ace ammonia is 10% = 10g/100ml
To increase your tank by 1 ppm (mg/l) you need ~100 mg (tank is 29 gal or just over 100 l of water)
So you need to add 1 ml of the solution. <Use a medicine syringe/measuring spoon, or approximate as 1/4 teaspoon is 1.25ml.>

Sorry about the numbers. I believe that I was at 4 for the whole month. Since the water change I've tested several times. Sometimes it looks like 1 and sometimes it looks like 2. Well anyway i got a medicine dropper like u said and put in 1ml more ammonia. I just put it in so i will test in an hour or so and see where its at. Obviously I'm new to this so sorry if I have some indecision about what number is the closest match. Sometimes the closest I can decide is in between. I tested the water in my daughter in laws little 1.5 gal tank that she has some little super tiny fish in and her water parameters are perfect also so I know the kit is OK. Thanks very much for your info on dosing too. I would have never figured that out!

 

[Gunk]

Agree with Jasong, cycling with 1ppm ammonia now could be low, be sure of your reading, and if you confirm that is 1ppm, then increase to 3ppm, maximum 4

And then wait and keep reading, the water change that you did will also help to hopefully kick the cycle .

In the process of increasing now. I'll post results soon

 

[Gunk]

Update...I'm getting nitrites!!

Update 2/27/11...I'm finally showing some nitrites!!! I can't believe it! I was just getting ready to change out all the water and start over again but figured I will test one more time. Tested nitrites let it sit 5 min and FINALLY showed up at a solid .25 perfect match in color to api color chart. Guess the 50% water change did the trick! It still took I guess about a week after the water change to get going. So I assume ammonia was just a little to high? Well whatever I'm so glad its working now. I can look forward to water tests instead of dread seeing no results again. Thanks so much to everybody who helped me along! I greatly appreciate you all. I'll stay posted as I see changes or when I have another question. Thanks again!

 

[ejaramillo01]

Good news man !!!

No more water changes, let's see, the nitrites should spike super high next, off the chart, but don't worry, that will be normal, then you will start to see the Nitrates.....

Keep us posted

 

[Ohitsremi]

Update 2/27/11...I'm finally showing some nitrites!!! I can't believe it! I was just getting ready to change out all the water and start over again but figured I will test one more time. Tested nitrites let it sit 5 min and FINALLY showed up at a solid .25 perfect match in color to api color chart. Guess the 50% water change did the trick! It still took I guess about a week after the water change to get going. So I assume ammonia was just a little to high? Well whatever I'm so glad its working now. I can look forward to water tests instead of dread seeing no results again. Thanks so much to everybody who helped me along! I greatly appreciate you all. I'll stay posted as I see changes or when I have another question. Thanks again!

From reading what you are saying I've read that that happens sometimes when the bacteria don't have the necessary nutrients and trace elements to survive. However it can easily be fullfilled by sprinkling a small amount of finely crushed fishfood every few days or once a week.