A newbie's pH woes

[g_adams27]

I used to have a 10 gallon tank with my 4 cories and 4 zebra danios. We've since moved to a 55 gallon tank with two SecondNature charcoal filter systems. It currently has 4 cories (from the old tank) and 4 zebra danios. But that's only after several dozen of other fish have died off! (tried usually in groups of 3 or 4. We'd put them in, they'd linger for a while (maybe not even 24 hours), then die. Try to stabilize the tank, then repeat.)

So obviously I'm doing something very wrong. I don't have enough experience to quite know what it is, though. So here are some more details - I'd appreciate anyone who can help me track down the problem.

The tank has quite a bit of plant life in it - a sword, some java ferns, and a few other floating things I can't identify but which reproduce rather well even in my very low light conditions.

I try to change the water every 2 weeks, usually taking out about 12-15 gallons per time (and sucking up whatever dead plant bits and fish poop I can).

Our municipal water supply is treated with chloarmines, so to counter it, I put in some "Ammo Lock" with every water change. ("each dose detoxifies 3.0ppm ammonia, 7.0ppm chlorine and 5.0ppm chloramines. ")

Now, I don't have anything to test ammonia in the water (not sure our little local pet store even has anything!) but I did buy a pH testing kit. Our tap water comes out dark blue, which on my chart is about 7.6 . The day after the water is changed, though, the tank has dropped to pale yellow - about a 6.0 . I'm assuming that perhaps the Ammo Lock itself is dropping the pH?

At any rate, I figured that steep a drop couldn't be very good for the tank, and might have explained my "tanque del muerto" So in an effort to get it back up to the 7's, I put in some baking soda (about a teaspoon in the 55 gallon tank gets it from the low 6's back to the low 7's.)

It's hard for me to interpret whether my fish are "happy" or not, but when I see the cories swimming with each other late at night going up, down, left, right, etc. I interpret that as fairly "happy". And they seem to be happiest when the pH is in the mid 7's. (or is the pH just a red herring?)

The danios never seem to be very happy - they just mope. Not much chasing or zooming, like you'd expect from zebras.

So am I just doing everything entirely wrong? What's preventing us from having a stable tank here? What should I be doing?

Thanks to anyone who can help me sort this out! :|

 

[rich311k]

First off go to bigalsonline.com and get yourself a Aquarium Pharmaceuticals FW test kit.

Next leave a cup of tap water out for 24 hours and the check the PH.

Thirdly stop the ammo lock and let the tank cycle. What kind of dechlor are you using?

Do not add any more fish until we help you figure out what is going on and help you stabilize the tank. You may want to up your water changes to 35% every week.

 

[g_adams27]

Thanks for the advice. Over at http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18535/cl0/testkits, I see a number of freshwater kits. What am I looking for - an ammonia one?

I'll set out a cup of water for testing tonight.

The only chemical I'm adding is the Ammo Lock (based on what it said about dealing with chlorine, chloramines and ammonia), and the baking soda when the pH drops to the low 6's.

 

[rich311k]

This one is the one I would recommend. it has every thing you need. Pick up the dechlor called prime while you are there and stop using the ammonia lock.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsU...quariumpharmaceuticalsfreshwatermastertestkit

 

[gu2high]

My advice:

1. Buy the FreshWater Master Test Kit as others indicated.
2. Buy a Water Conditioner or Tap Water Dechlorinator with brands name like Prime or AquaSafe or Top Fin.
3. Change the tank water as much as you can, don't forget to add the '2.' above to dechlorinate the water.
4. Check the tap water pH and the tank water pH. Find out anything in the tank which changes the pH and removed it.
5. Go to http://fishprofiles.com/profiles/default.aspx?pnl=fresh to find out the fishes' pH. If the pH of the fish you want to add in is way off, don't put that fish in the tank. Unless you find a way to lower/raise the pH, but this is not recommended.
6. Check the ammonia, etc. using the Fresh Water Master Test Kit.
7. If everything is ok, then add few hardy fishes in like Zebra Danio.
8. Wait three weeks to let the filter grow enough bacteria (if it is a new filter). If the fishes are still alive in several weeks, add several more fishes in.
9. Change 30-50% every week. Don't forget to add dechlorinater. If you feed too much and foods are left in the tank, you should vaccum the gravel every other days.
10. Clean the filter if really dirty but don't clean/change all the filter media at the same time.

 

[g_adams27]

According to my pH kit, it looks like tap water left out overnight has dropped from around 7.8 pH to 7.0.

Rich, why do you suggest switching away from the Ammo Lock? Is it doing (or not doing) something that it shouldn't? (just trying to understand what I should be treating in my tank, and what I should be leaving alone...)

Thanks again.

 

[rich311k]

The ammonia lock is hiding the ammonia, preventing the tank from finishing it cycle. I know it makes it non toxic and all that but I feel a tank is much healthier if it finishes a normal cyle and converts all the ammonia to nitrites and on to nitrates in a natural manner. Prime is also a great value a 500ml bottle will treat 5000 gallons of water so it will last you more than a little while.

I think the PH will stabalize close to your tap water reading of 7.0 once everything stablizes. Do you have any natural wood in the tank? What kind of substrate?

 

[supermazz9]

Stop testing your pH.

You're freaking yourself out about something that you shouldn't really be messing with anyway, and you've got much bigger problems to deal with. Stable pH is better for your fish than ups and downs. Leave that test alone for a while.

The Ammonia Lock is stopping you from being able to complete your cycle. By rendering the ammonia (and nitrites) inert, your have no substanance for your good bacteria. Until they flourish, your tank can't process ammonia and nitrites naturally. If you can, find a temporary new home for your fish, perhaps a friend who can take them in for a few weeks, or maybe the store will take them back. Complete your full cycle. Get some ammonia in your tank (2 or 3 cocktail shrimp, or a "pure" ammonia source). Stop using Ammonia Lock.

I've got no experience with your filters, but I'm going to presume there's floss and some sort of biofilter in there. Personally, I'd dump the charcoal.

A properly done cycle is going to give your tank the most beneficial bacteria. Once it's complete, you will be able to "max" out your bioload. I would personally do this all at once, while you've got a large enough bacteria community to handle the waste.

Go buy yourself a test kit. If you can't find one at your LFS there are plenty of online dealers, check posts above mine.

 

[g_adams27]

I want to thank you guys for your replies. Given the hectic nature of Christmas and New Year's, I'm probably going to put the fish on hold for a couple of weeks (other than regular water changes). The ones that are old-time fish (cories, a pleco) that have survived the worst I can give them so I'll just hope they can hang on a little longer.

Meanwhile, I need to go read up on tank cycling - I'm not totally sure how that works. There's probably some FAQs around here, right?

More later! Merry Christmas to y'all.

 

[supermazz9]

of course there is...here you are
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/article_view.php?faq=2&fldAuto=21

good luck and merry christmas