About to give up!

The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an interest in aquariums or fish keeping!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

mantis

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Jan 1, 2003
Messages
20
Location
Wichita, KS USA
I'm at my wits end....... I put up a 39 gal tank with a Penguin 170 biowheel filter. I've had nothing but problems with nitrates spiking everytime I turn around. The so called "experts" here have me so frustrated that I really don't care to have the tank anymore. I just spent $60 on more stuff to "fix" the problem but I think it made it worse. I came home from work last nite to find 2 more fish dead. That was it I went tothe store had them check the water...nitreates through the roof. I bougt a pump and a air bubble strip for more oxygen. I guess he was just as frustrated because he then told me the pump is not big enough and that was my problem. He suggested an underground filter and a Tetra deep pump model dw18. I asked if putting the bubble strip would help and he said yes. I felt I could get better prices at petsmart so I bought the bubble strip, tubing and pump from him. Then I preceded to go "look" at the stuff at petsmart. Well I ended up buying a underground filter and another pump (topfin). This pump was smaller than the other and it was suggested to put the bubbles on this one and use my tetra deep for the undergravel filter.
Well........... after a trip back to get the right size filter... I decided to just put the bubbles in for now until the weekend because thats going to be a major pain. I did a 50% water change and placed the bubble strip in. 8O Afterabout an hour of running the bubbles the house smelt like sewer!!! :evil: I smelt the tank and it was coming from it. I didn't know what to do so I did nothing thinking that it would correct itself. WEll...its 3:00 am and I turned my lite on in the tank and the fish were stressed!!! I checked the nitrates ...they weren't bad or the ammonia. So I'm sitting here frustrated and wondering ...Where do I go from here? I'm sure I'll prolly loose the fish unless a miracle happens. HELP! If the fish die so does the tank! Thanks. Mantis
 
I would try adding aquariun salts and reducing the feeding to once a day (if you are feeding them more than that)........ And of course a water change could never hurt either....... I am in no way a pro at this but I had a problem very similar and it seem's to have helped if not done the trick......... As far as I know.
 
Thank you. I've added the aquarium salts and I onlt feed then once a day plus i skip a day after 3. The "expert" kept telling me I was feeding them to much also but I barely fed them.
Oh by the way...2 more fish dead plus the water has a yellow tinge to it.... :cry: I'm not a happy camper............ Mantis
 
You mention nitrAtes a few times in your post, but it sounds to me like you're having problems with nitrItes? Nitrite spikes would indicate that either your tank is (1)overcrowded, (2)overfeeding, (3)the filtration isn't working properly, or (4)the tank hasn't fully cycled yet. High nitrate levels indicate either an increase in water changes is needed (due to dissolved organics in the water), or your tap water has a high level to begin with.

I'm not familiar with your set-up, so any additional info regarding tank size, water parameters (pH, GH, KH), and fish being housed with be helpful. Ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite levels would help, too.
 
How many fish do you have? What kind of fish too (if they are african cichlids they require a higher ph and that in tern makes lower levels of nitrite more toxic)? The yellowish tinge thing is new to me (I've never heard of it) unless you are medicating the water as well, and even then I don't know what would cause it to turn yellow. :?
 
Do you have drift wood in the water? This will lead to yellowish water or other decaying organic matter might as well. The more info we have the better we can help so tell us all. And some rocks might give the water a yellowish tinge if the were coloured I suppose.
 
The odour is from ammonia and nitrites in the water. Do a massive water change (around 70%) right away. If you think your ammonia is ok, then you need a new test kit because that's what the odour is. The yellowish tinge is from waste in the water (ammonia and nitrite), think when you take a leak in the toilet. Your tank is obviously not cycled yet, so you're gonna have to do 50% water changes everyday until your nitrite and ammonia levels go back down to 0. Also what fish do you have in the tank? And what are you doing listening to the petsmart employees, better yet what are you doing GOING THERE?!! That place is a mistake for aquatics. Find yourself a reputable local aquarium store and go there, ask them for advice. The guy at petsmart just saw a person that had problems in their aqauria, dollars signs for him. The air pump you bought may be useless to you, chances are the biowheel will aerate the water enough to provide aqequete oxygen to the fish (or plants?). Take back the underground filter, your better off with the bio-wheel. Also get another test kit, they expire so check the expiry date on the bottom. Bottom line, don't shop at petsmart for aquarium supplies. They don't give the right advice their just looking to make a sale.
 
Hiya Mantis:

Wow. What a pain. However, I think the folks here can help if we get more info ("Need more input!" - Johnny5 *grin*)

What ARE you water parameters? Ammonia/nitrite/nitrate? Having the numbers really helps. Understand ANY level of ammonia can be deadly and any level of nitrite dangerous. Ammonia burns the gills of the fish and they can't breathe. Nitrite competes with oxygen and the fish suffocate.

As others have asked, how many fish/what are they?

How long has the tank been running? When did the problems start? What happened prior to the probs (add anything, water change, small children visiting the tank)?

Do you gravel vac? How often?

The yellow tinge is often a result of driftwood as tkos said; do you have any in the tank?

Couple of thoughts/suggestions. When you say "smells like a sewer" do mean it smells like rotten eggs? If so, CHANGE THE WATER!! Rotten egg smells mean hydrogen sulfide. Its comes from anaerobic bacteria, usually living in the gravel, and is deadly.

Answers to those questions gives us a good place to start figuring out whats going on. Any other things you can think of to add will help as well.
 
Anaerobic bacteria will wipe out fish really quickly and that could easily be the problem if you have a deep substrate in your tank that you recently moved around. I have heard of people, especially those with sand, that have lost whole tanks in a matter of an hour when they relseaed this into their tanks through cleaning.
 
Thank you all!! I have only 11 fish left and 1 crab: 2 serpae tetras, 2 honey sunset gouramis, 1 dwarf gourami, 1 flame tetra, 4 zebra danios, 1 brown kuhli loach, 1 red crab. The water is cloudy and yellow plus 2 more fish dead (no drift wood, just plastic). Yes i will do another water change. The amonia was at 0.25 ppm, nitrate was at around 6 ppm. This is a 39 gal tall tank. I only vaccumed the gravel last night. The tank was set up Jan 3 '03 and its been a constant battle with the nitrates/nitrites. I do think it is mainly due to the filter not being large enough. The water can be great in the morning but when I come home from work I have stressed out fish. I test the water and the nitrates are through the roof. ~sigh~ The "expert" was at a local fish store who have helped in the past but they are just as frustrated. I buy all my fish from them and they are the best store in town. I only went to petsmart to compare prices and for filters to the biowheel but got fruistrated and bought the other stuff. ~sigh...heavy sigh~ Yes I will get new test kits. I don't have any that will do KH or GH. Thank you very much. I'm running for the tank now to try to save the fish...........water change here I come!! Its gonna be another long night......~sigh~. Mantis
 
That was the brightest water I've ever seen!!!! What was funny.....all the fish swam to the area where I was pouring the water in!!!! Hmmmm...I think they said "thank you"!!! Now i'll just wait and see. Thanks again. PLEASE keep up with the advice. This is the first time I've ever had this much trouble with a tank. Mantis
 
What's your ph. I have had a similar problem with water turning cloudy and ammonia spiking due to a ph crash. If the ph drops below 6.2 (I think thats the value) bacteria begins to die, which clouds the water, although I don't recall a yellow tint.
 
Do constant water changes (50% a day for a week), then check the levels again. Your filter is good enough for that setup, it was good enough for my 50g with Green spotted puffer, figure 8 and 3 small mono argentus (which are all really messy fish). For a 39g, all the fish you have is a rather large bio-load. Try to stock your tank low (don't cram a tonne of fish into it, you've got your whole life to take care of different fish) 1inch per gal rule shouldn't actually be followed because it depends on the fish. Add some plants to make your tank more appealing (which also help with water parameters). If you stock your tank heavy, be ready for problems and dead fish. Also the red crab requires brackish water and land to live on, in addition having more than one gourami in a tank is a bad idea. They are generally agressive to each other, if not at first it will happen.
change the water as much as you can as often as you can till the smell goes away (only once a day), then check your water parameters.
 
So sorry you're having problems. I don't know who the experts are at your LFS, but it sounds like they let you, or encouraged you to, stock your tank too quickly.

You may have done this, but ideally, you only put in about four hearty fish to begin. I like to let the entire cycle run before I put in anything else. That means I see the ammonia and nitrite go way up and then come all the way back to zero. When that has happened, I know I have lots of hungry bacteria ready to eat fish waste waiting in the wings. Even so, I never add more than four to six small fish in a week, even for a fully established tank, and I never add fish if I'm seeing any ammonia or nitrite in my tests (which I occassionally will in very small amounts).

To be honest, I kinda doubt the filter being too small was the culprit, but I've been wrong before.
 
Ooo. Thats part of your prob. Ammonia and those nitrite levels. As mentioned before, both are deadly. I agree with cdawson's advice; lots n lots of water changes. You've got to dilute those toxins.

I'm amazed this is a 7 month old tank and you are still battling with the cycle. Yes, you're overstocked, but jeez...if you've been doing regular water changes those levels shouldn't be THAT bad. Have you medicated the tank or something? Is ammonia showing up in your tap water (you can test it to check)?

You might want to consider getting some Bio-Spira if the stores round u carry it. Its basically the cycling bacteria in a bag. Its not made to play catch up, rather to be put in with the fish and take care of the slowly growing levels of waste, but in your case it might help kick start that slow cycle.
 
I've checked the city water and nothing. Overstocked???? 11 fish in a 39 gal??? I'm amazed by this especially since my LFS keeps tellin me I can put up to 29 fish in there (never made it though). Another kicker is that a friend of mine bought the very same setup and is having identical situations. But shes lost her whole tank, cleaned it out twice! and is still having problems. I've managed to keep mine running but I'm ready for it to be over with!!! I did a 70% (or more) water change last evening......brightest water I've seen. It was alittle cloudy afterwards but its clear. I just turned on the light and its clear but several fish stressed. I'll prolly lose another serpae tetra. This just doesn't make sense.
On stocking the tank......It took a very long time for the tank to cycle to begin with and I waited. I put 9 zebra danios in to get it started. A few of them died which i expected but i gradually added in my honey sunset gouramis (5) but then they started to die off because of the fluctuations in the water quality so I started replacing them w/ cheaper fish (tetras). I also tired the live plant thing and that just created a huge mess. I have never medicated except for stress coat ( some ppl like this some ppl don't) This is one of the reasons my tank hasn't completely died out like my friends. Anyway........I'll keep making water changes and see how that does. Thank you for the help ...everyone. Mantis
 
Wow. I wonder whats going on there in Wichita. 2 people with the same set up having the same probs is unusual.

Heh I should have specified (tis what I get for posting so damn late); I meant overstocked as in initially. Now you're not. The higher loads initially may have contributed the the beginning of the probs.

Out of curiosity, what happened with the live plants. You say it created a mess. If they were dying in the tank, that too may have contributed to the ammonia/nitrite issues.

I suggest you call your local water supply and see if anything is going on at that end. You can also check here: http://www.epa.gov/safewater/dwinfo.htm to see your local water supply safe drinking water report.

Feh. Fish keeping is supposed to be fun, and you're obviously not having any atm. Keep throwing info at us, and we'll keep trying to help you figure this out so you can ENJOY your fish.
 
The only thing I can add to what has been said (good advice, BTW) is that I would definitely get rid of the crab. Crabs eat fish, and they have different requirements, like has been posted. The crab will increase the stress in the tank and hinder your efforts.
 
Back
Top Bottom