Adding Prime after using Tetra SafeStart

[GUPPIESAGAIN]

After a self imposed 18 year hiatus from fish tanks I have found my self back for another round.

A lot of things have changed and when I purchased my new 29 gallon Biocube the fish guy sold me a bottle of SafeStart to aid in the cycling process.

I waited 3 weeks to finally set up my tank (long drawn out story) but this weekend I added live plants, finally got the Seachem Florurite rinsed enough added the SafeStart and felt great about where I was, let the cycle begin!

So this morning the temperature looked good the tank was a little cloudy, I figured the bacteria was blooming and I decided to give the amazing Betta (which took me nearly 2 hours to pick out) that had been living in a large glass vessel on my kitchen island for the last 3 weeks a little taste of paradise.

I acclimated him as one would do to most fish they bring home and set him free. About 20 minutes into his release I noticed that he seemed to have an issue fighting the pull of the filter intake so I turned off the Biocube filter and left the air stones on to keep the water flowing.

It was at this time I thought if the current was too strong in the Biocube then I needed to set up the small Marineland 5 gallon that I bought for him immediately.

It was somewhere within an hour of setting him free that I came downstairs to find him in total distress, he was resting at the top of the tank and not looking good. I quickly poured some room temperature bottled spring water into his old glass home added Prime and began my attempted to fish him out of the planted tank.

Unfortunately I was unsuccessful in my attempts to save him and I feel horrible.

I've spent the whole afternoon rethinking what I did and didn't do when setting up the tank and it hit me I was so overjoyed with the SafeStart that I didn't add Prime or any water conditioner. I have searched the world wide web looking for a definite answer if I can add Prime after SafeStart and I can't seem to find it.

At this point in time I don't know what to do. I could care less about a quick cycle but I don't know what will happen to the cycle if I add Prime now. If memory serves me correctly the chlorine will evaporate but the chloramine is forever unless you add a water conditioner.

My main outcome is not to kill any more fish period. I know there is no guarantee I won't have fish die while in my care but I do want to do my best to provide them with the best environment possible and it begins with water quality.

I know I am a newbie and there may be 1,000s of posts which relate to this topic but I've spent the day grieving because this is exactly why I gave up this hobby years ago, life happens fish die but when it happens on my watch I feel badly.

So if anyone out there can cut me a newbie break and offer me some sage advice or point me to the correct thread I would be grateful.

Dayna

 

[Clayman]

So, even with the safe start the cycle will still take a while. The best thing to do is add the prime. Whatever bacteria that was in the safe start was probably killed off by the untreated tap water. Prime shouldn't harm anything ever really. Add the prime for sure. Then get a test kit(liquid type) so you can monitor the progress of your cycle. Since you have no fish in the tank a fishless cycle would be the easy way to do it without harming the fish. With fish in the tank you'll need to do a lot of water changes to keep the toxin levels low enough. Keep the questions coming and it will be easy!

 

[Saekalive]

Prime will neither harm, nor inhibit you cycle. For a fish less cycle, find yourself some industrial strength ammonia, non scented. Once you get yourself a testkit, dose the ammonia up to 4 ppm, and if you feel so, add some more bottled bacteria. There are mixed results withit, but it might work for you.

Sent from my SM-T230NU using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[GUPPIESAGAIN]

Ok so I have added Prime.

I have the API Master Test Kit and I haven't tested the water yet, I figured I need to give it a few days. How long should I wait? Do I need to turn the heater up to help with the cycle. I've read where raising the temp and keeping the tank 'dark' helps. I've kept the lights on because I have plants. At this point I can always buy more plants, fish are my main concern.

On the other hand the whole reason for this rush to cycle my new tank is a whole other 'can of worms' as the saying goes.

I am a guppy freak. Every since my 8th birthday when my parents bought me a custom made 15 gallon hexagon tank stocked it with the biggest bad *** guppies I have ever seen, I have been chasing the dragon or guppies in this case to recreate that memory.

I spent a lot of time and money almost 20 years ago on both fresh and salt until I discovered fast motorcycles and made that my vice.

I've fallen back into this hobby based on my attempt to help a coworker, again another detour non related to this thread.

It's a long story but a week ago yesterday a Craigslist alert popped up in my in box and a local resident is selling her 30 gallon tank stocked with 60-80 show guppies. Can you say overstocked?!

After a long conversation with the owner and a video it became apparent to me I am not being 'Catfished" and this is either an answer to my prayers or a push over the edge that I have allocated more money than common sense into this hobby once again.

Unfortunately the owner of the established 30 gallon is moving next weekend so I have to do the transport and set up tomorrow when I get out of work. Thus the reason that the set up of my 29 gallon Biocube became an emergency.

I am reaching back to the reassesses of my mind but I have7 brand new 5 gallon buckets with lids, a 50 foot Python syphon to help with the breakdown and transport. At home I have a tank stand already in place as well as three small air pumps and air stones.

Although I'm not thrilled with the gravel choice logic says it's the best bio source I have going for me other than the filter media. All of which I am planning to keep moist in a separate bucket.

I've asked the owner not to feed them tonight or tomorrow to forgo excess stress pooping. The air pumps and stones are to keep the buckets aerated while I am setting up the tank here and getting the temperature correct.

My game plan is to get the established tank up and running and then split the guppies between the two tanks once the 29 gallon cycles. I have also purchased another 27 gallon rimless which is still packaged just in case there still are too many between the two tanks. I don't want to become a professional breeder, I just want to enjoy them and possibly sell them locally.

24 hours ago I was so sure that I was going to be able to pull this off without a hitch but this Betta death has me doubting if this is the right thing to do.

I know I am for all intensive purposes a newbie and taking on a transport of this nature should be left for those at a higher level but these are the guppies of my dreams and I rarely turn away from a challenge.

Besides my 49th birthday is a few days away and I feel like I owe it to the memory of my 8 year old self who was so mesmerized by those guppies that she didn't watch TV for weeks and spent all of her time studying at her desk just to be close to those magical beauties. I well up with tears just thinking about the possibilities and yet the fear of failure.

Some how going at 3 digit speeds on two wheels seems a lot less scary than what awaits me tomorrow and the next several weeks.

Any and all advice except to turn back is welcome and appreciated.

Dayna

 

[Saekalive]

Ok. Do you know what filter is on the tank with all the guppies?

When transporting the filter media, get a container big enough and just put it in tank water

Test your tap water too.

For transport: put them in gallon buckets divided equally. Don't worry about airstones. When you get home, put fresh water dose with prime and turn on filter, heater. Add the guppies and let them explore for an hour before turning on lights to reduce stress.

For the tank situation. This one will be tricky. With 4 guppies, it's going to require daily attention and testing. I'm going to refer my brother to this thread to deal withthis,as I am not the best person for dealing with this.

Sent from my SM-T230NU using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Saekalive]

Correction: with dealing with an overstock of 80 guppies

Sent from my SM-T230NU using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[ImACoolguy]

Pretty much what he said.

Daily testing is going to be essential.
I'd use your established tank for most of them and use the cycling tank for the rest.

Try and find some established filter from a LFS and get as much as you can shove in the filter to give the bacteria a boost to cope with the overwhelming sudden bioload.

And yes a heater will help the tank cycle. I believe I read somewhere the optimal temp for bacterial growth is around 73-75F.

All in all this is insane(from how it sounded when he told me). Even in your established tank that many fish at one time is a huge amountZ


Caleb

 

[GUPPIESAGAIN]

I have guppies but I'm terrified

Thanks to all of you who replied. I need to call upon your super powers again.

I picked up the 29 gallon established tank and I kid you not about 80 guppies all in various sizes, I left no baby fry behind.

I forgot what a mess some seasoned and not well maintained tanks can smell like I can't wait to take my Rav in for detailing.

I have attempted to set up the tank here at my home. I kept the gravel wet and in a separate bucket I put the established media filters - to say that they are slimly and a smelly mess is an understatement.

I currently have two five gallon buckets about half full with guppies divided in each and I am aerating them with air stones.

I had about 5 gallons of saved tank water in addition to about 2 gallons that was in the with the gravel. I added that to the tank and then I went to the store and purchased 11 gallons of Spring water which I have now added to the tank.

The tank is now about 3/4 full of water. Some how I think my math is off but just humor me at this point folks.

I also went to the pet store and bought an Aqueon Quiet Flow filter for a 40 gallon tank because as I said the original filter media is sludgy and nasty. I have no clue exactly what it is but I can see the name Tetra on it and there are a series of round disc on green plastic. This tank also has a hard plastic underground filter with two small carbon plastic cartiridges ( my brain is fried folks) and I think they are way past their prime as well. I don't know if its due to the water level but I can't get any of the filters pumps to run and yes I've primed them.

I'm thinking that because they had 3 filtration systems on this tank that is the only way it survived and thrived.

I do have a air pump hooked up to a bubble bar that is under the gravel and I'm guessing once the water level gets higher the underground filter will kick in.

I have added Seachem Prime to the tank and I also picked up API Stress Coat+ to help but I haven't added it to the tank. It's been about an hour now.

I've done an API test for High Range PH and it's about 7.8 -8.0 - I am leaning more to 7.8. The Ammonia is at 0.

They did not use a heater on this tank, I have a brand new one.

So now I'm at a stand still. I've run around like a maniac for the last 5 hours, I've got two buckets of fish and I am terrified to put them in the tank.

I was thinking of putting small batches in zip lock bags and floating them and slowly acclimating them. Again they are in their original established water.

So before I make a huge mistake is there any advice that any of you can offer me.

I will check this post every 5 minutes otherwise I'm going to bag a batch of fish and begin the process. Finger crossed.

Dayna

 

[biondoa]

Some of these posts were so long that I may have missed something, but you have to understand that Prime is for removing chlorine and chloramine from your water. Safe Start is a bacteria additive. If you do not remove the chlorine and chloramine, you will kill the bacteria in the safe start. So, yes, you need to add the Prime. Prime is your friend. It helps with many things, but it is not bacteria. You need both Prime and the bacteria in safe start, not just one or the other.

 

[ImACoolguy]

Don't throw away that smelly filter pad!!!

It may be smelly but it has bacteria on it! Bacteria you need to get this cycle up and running as fast as possible.

Also, you may get a nitrate reading, this is because you added old water to the tank. It's a common misconception that water holds bacteria when in fact it holds very trace amounts of any, it only holds nitrates. Same applies to substrate, it holds a little more than water but not enough to alter the tank and is just adding extra nitrates.


Caleb

 

[GUPPIESAGAIN]

I am adding the guppies in small batches to the tank. I have the heater on and I am monitoring the temp.

I don't have any lights on the tank and the filters are still not priming, again I am hoping its the water level.

I haven't done anything to the smelly filter media it's still in a bucket immersed in 10 inches of original tank water.

Again I have added Prime I have not added the API Stress coat.

There is a lot of debris that is floating around in the tank it appears to be parts of fish who have past or slime from the old filters.

I guess now I just wait and pray.

Any other tips?

Thanks for all your help

 

[GUPPIESAGAIN]

Don't throw away that smelly filter pad!!!

It may be smelly but it has bacteria on it! Bacteria you need to get this cycle up and running as fast as possible.

Also, you may get a nitrate reading, this is because you added old water to the tank. It's a common misconception that water holds bacteria when in fact it holds very trace amounts of any, it only holds nitrates. Same applies to substrate, it holds a little more than water but not enough to alter the tank and is just adding extra nitrates.


Caleb

What are the "good' test reading numbers I should be looking for. The woman said she kept the PH about 7.6-7.8. She said because of that high PH she was not able to keep any plecos or catfish to clean up the bottom of the tank. She said the rarely lasted a day in the tank. Could this be true?

Thanks again for all the hand holding. I

 

[ImACoolguy]

Me personally I would wash that gravel as best you can, if it's as dirty as you make it sound that's a mess.

Full your tank up the rest of the way and the filters should prime.

Put that old smelly media in your new filter to get the bacteria colony going.

Then make sure you acclimate these fish for a while, chances are their water wasn't the cleanest before you got them and new water can shock them. Drip acclimate the bags with a a small amount of new tank water (like 0.5mL) every 10-15 mins to help them adjust.


Caleb

 

[ImACoolguy]

What are the "good' test reading numbers I should be looking for. The woman said she kept the PH about 7.6-7.8. She said because of that high PH she was not able to keep any plecos or catfish to clean up the bottom of the tank. She said the rarely lasted a day in the tank. Could this be true?

Thanks again for all the hand holding. I

Chances are, they only lasted a day because of the poor water quality and bad acclimation. Though it's probably best no new fish were introduced as overstocked this tank was.

pH doesn't really matter if it's in the 6.5-8.5 range your fish new and old will adapt.

What you want while this tank cycles is

Ammonia- kept under 1ppm
Nitrite- kept under 1ppm

With this many fish at one time, just a warning, this might take ALOT of water changes.


Caleb

 

[GUPPIESAGAIN]

Caleb[/QUOTE]

Me personally I would wash that gravel as best you can, if it's as dirty as you make it sound that's a mess.

Full your tank up the rest of the way and the filters should prime.

Put that old smelly media in your new filter to get the bacteria colony going.

Then make sure you acclimate these fish for a while, chances are their water wasn't the cleanest before you got them and new water can shock them. Drip acclimate the bags with a a small amount of new tank water (like 0.5mL) every 10-15 mins to help them adjust.


Caleb

Thanks for the advice I wish I would have reached out to you 5 hours ago and gotten this reply.

I was worried that if I rinsed the gravel then I would lose beneficial bacteria.
I've already acclimated and added all of the fish over the last 5 hours. I've added Prime to the new water and I have the heater on and currently it's a chilly 73.5.

Would it be beneficial to add SafeStart? As far as the gravel goes I have a Python so I could use it to help clean the gravel when I do a water change. How often and how much of a water change should I do. This tank is still way overstocked but my plan is to split them between this 29 tank and my 29 gallon BioCube. I also have a 27 gallon Marineland rimless that is untouched but feel like I'm already way over my head.

For the record I know this is not the smart way to go about getting back into the hobby but I had to do something because the woman with the guppies is moving on Friday, I had to make it happen.

 

[ImACoolguy]

The extra tank would help lessen the bioload but of course you would be ding more water changes because it's another tank.

I am not your guy on the SafeStart, I've never used it and don't know much about it. Don't want to give advice on something I don't know


Caleb

 

[GUPPIESAGAIN]

After 6 hours of panic and finally getting all the guppies acclimated I did some digging in a box of miscellaneous stuff the previous owner gave me and found two lids for the filter units that looked like they had never been placed on the units. She had a Whisper EX 40 and EX 20 running as well as an underground filter. The media for the two filters was torn and shot but I did put the slimy Bio Scrubbers in and plugged the filter units in. The water flow from the 2 Whispers as well as the new Acqueon 40 I purchased appeared to be a little too much for the guppies so I unplugged the EX 40 and left the other two running. The Acqueon has a new carbon filter in it the EX 20 just has a slimy Bio Scrubber
I noticed there were no bubbles coming up from the tubes for the underground filter; I tried using a dedicated air pump to the lines but still nothing. Since I was unfamiliar with this set up I did some research and from looking at the tubes from outside of the tank it appears there is so much gunk and crude compacted around the air stones at the bottom they are not able to function. In a word – gross.
There is a large bubble bar in the back of the tank also supplying aeration.
I did test the water today.
PH 7.8
Ammonia 0ppm-0.25ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Nitrate 40 -80 ppm
The tank temp is 77-78. I fed this morning and everyone seems ok no signs of distress.
Right now I am trying to figure out what to do tonight. Part of me wants to get the underground filter working by unclogging the tubes and installing new air stones. My concern is this may lead to releasing/stirring up more icky waste into the tank. I don’t know if the benefits of getting it working will offset the risks of increasing the Nitrates – I’m guessing that is what may happen.
I don’t know if I should pick up carbon filter media for the EX 20 Whisper and hope the additional carbon filtration will help. I have a Magnum 750 Canister which I could hook up with a Micron Cartridge but my concern is that there are so many baby fry in the tank (yes I saved every last one) that they may get sucked in as well as since the tank is so populated there’s a good chance it might suck up an adult.
All in all this is a lot more than I bargained for when I made the commitment to purchase these fish and the tank. Honestly it never crossed my mind someone could raise and populate in such large numbers some of the most beautiful guppies I’ve seen in years in such an ill maintained tank. I really figured my main hurtle would be cycling my 29 Biocube in order to provide more room for the guppies.
Any advice or input as well as prayer are more than welcome.

 

[ImACoolguy]

I'd do lots of water changes, that nitrate is too high. Try not to let it get above 20ppm.

GOOD NEWS though, that slimy pad might have saved your cycle. The excessive bioload might be the reason for the ammonia reading.


Caleb

 

[GUPPIESAGAIN]

I'd do lots of water changes, that nitrate is too high. Try not to let it get above 20ppm.

GOOD NEWS though, that slimy pad might have saved your cycle. The excessive bioload might be the reason for the ammonia reading.


Caleb

Ok so I just got the tank home and set it up last night. I've just added nearly 14-15 gallons of 'new water' to a 29 gallon tank. Should I wait until the weekend to do a water change? or sooner?

I know that when I do a water change I can use the syphon to help vacum the gravel to get some of the waste out but is there anything else I can do?

Should I attempt to get the underground filter running by uncloging the tubes and installing new air stones? Or am I risking raising the nitrates?

 

[ImACoolguy]

Ok so I just got the tank home and set it up last night. I've just added nearly 14-15 gallons of 'new water' to a 29 gallon tank. Should I wait until the weekend to do a water change? or sooner?

I know that when I do a water change I can use the syphon to help vacum the gravel to get some of the waste out but is there anything else I can do?

Should I attempt to get the underground filter running by uncloging the tubes and installing new air stones? Or am I risking raising the nitrates?

I'd pull the under gravel filter. They can trap waste underneath them and as you said yours is already clogged.

I'd do a water change as soon as possible


Caleb