Am I doing the right thing?

[savlon123]

So we fell into the same trap as many others and listened to the pet shop!

We now have a 70lt (20gallon) Aqua One tank with LED lights. We Originally put in StressCoat and Stresszyme then left it for a week. We then added 6 neon tetra's. Very happy campers! No Ammonia but of course no Nitrite or Nitrate either! We also had a PH of 7.8 so we were using phdown.
One week later we added two Bristlenose catfish. Then the chaos started!
Firstly a couple of days later one of our previously healthy neon's started floating vertical - head up.
We used a test kit and our readings showed .25ppm ammonia. The petshop suggested using Tonic Salt. 4 days later I had a very sick looking neon and 2ppm ammonia. At this point the pet store became pretty useless and I turned to google.
So I am now using Prime and Stability, my neon is still looking very sick but is still alive and I have started doing 30% PWC every other day. I also stopped using phdown and stuck a piece of driftwood in the tank
My levels are now
Ammonia - 1ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - 0ppm
PH - 7.6
I am adding 5mls of Stability daily and 5 mls of prime every water change.
My questions are:-
Am I now doing the right thing?
Can I do anything better?
How long before I see the Nitrite levels go up?

Finally, My little neon is still unhappy I dont have a quarantine tank (next on the list, but right now I need to sort this one out) the other fish were chasing it so I have it in a floating breading trap.
He is swimming in a twitching kind of way unable to swim straight or the right way up. He floats quite a bit at the top, on his side and head up. I have no idea what is wrong with him or how to help him. His colour has been fine but I now notice his colour is fading. He first got sick 2 weeks ago.
All the other fish seem very happy.
Thanks for the help

 

[savlon123]

I also just want to add that I have read a fair bit of the 'stickly' information and bloggs that have been suggested. I just want to make sure I have been understanding them correctly and I am now doing the right thing.

 

[Caliban07]

Sounds like you are now doing the right things. Neons are not the hardiest of fish to begin with. How are the others doing? You should return both those catfish as they grow quickly and create lots of waste that will make a smaller tank more difficult to control. If the fish have been exposed to high levels of ammonia then they may not last that long now.

What test kit are you using?


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[savlon123]

Oh and one other question. I have not been turning the light on because of the sick neon being so close to the top of the tank. Is this a good thing? Do the BB need the LED's to be on?

 

[savlon123]

I cant return the catfish unfortunately. All the other fish are doing pretty good, dont look distressed and eating well.
I am using an API test kit

 

[Caliban07]

I cant return the catfish unfortunately. All the other fish are doing pretty good, dont look distressed and eating well.
I am using an API test kit

That's good. Why can't you return the catfish? Can you take them to another store they usually take them in.


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[savlon123]

They are my sons. The whole tank is actually my sons. It was his xmas pressie. He wanted 2 types of fish - catfish and a beta!!!
So I cant return them.
Getting a bigger tank (maybe in a year or two) but returning the fish is not going to happen

 

[jessipanda]

As a bristlenose owner, I would suggest upping your tank size ASAP if you intend on keeping them. A year in a 20g will either stunt their growth or cause issues from their waste alone. When Caliban said they grow quickly and produce a lot of waste, what he meant was they grow EXTREMELY quickly and produce an EXTREME amount of waste. Two in a 20g, even if they are only 1" now, is already way too much for that tank not including the other fish.
Nothing smaller than a 55-60g is suitable for a single bristlenose. With two, I'd suggest at LEAST a 75g once they are about 2.5-3". If you plan on getting a larger tank is the next 6 months, keep them. If you don't, return them for now and get one or two when you can comfortably house them in a proper tank. Otherwise, you're going to need to do many large water changes daily and significantly shorten their lifespans.

 

[savlon123]

It's so frustrating, pretty much everything we read (not to mention other fish owners and the store) has said that there would be no issue with having catfish in a tank this size.

 

[Laeris]

I'm so sorry this is frustrating It's difficult when you have enthusiasts' help and then meet dyed-in-the-wool aquarists who would sooner switch to Ramen than have their watery charges disadvantaged. I'm only slightly exaggerating

Wait for the next Pet* dollar per gallon sale and get an upgrade on the cheap or check Craigslist. There may be a local community aquarium society style of thing near you on Facebook. There's a couple near me and they have equipment up all the time, I just saw a 55g for $50. You can keep your current filtration at first, but you will want to upgrade that as well in time.

All you can do now for the sweet little guy is keep up on water changes to keep ammonia low and wait for the beneficial bacteria colony to take over. It'll seem like forever and you might feel like throwing the whole mess into the street, but once it's done things will calm down. It shouldn't take longer than a few weeks. You'll be able to switch to checking water parameters, siphon the gravel, etc. weekly and it's no big deal.

 

[savlon123]

Im in little old NZ - we dont have the cheap stuff from craiglists etc sadly but I will keep my eye open for a bigger tank.
But right now - this is all I have. As it's already cost me almost $1,000 NZ to set up buying another tank at potentially another $600 nz isn't going to happen

 

[Laeris]

That does make a huge difference. I wish I was still in contact with people there. Confound it. Well, get on the best you can, obviously. If you're near earthquake country, brace the stand and tank the best you can.

 

[jmarcf]

Im in little old NZ - we dont have the cheap stuff from craiglists etc sadly but I will keep my eye open for a bigger tank.
But right now - this is all I have. As it's already cost me almost $1,000 NZ to set up buying another tank at potentially another $600 nz isn't going to happen

I know the feeling Australia isn't any better on prices even second hand tanks of a decent size goes for heaps here.

I get conflicting information on bristle noses some say they don't grow big at all others say you need a massive tank

 

[jessipanda]

That's the problem...any plecostomus is going to count as several fish just because of their bioload. Although bristlenose stay smaller--around 4-6" full grown usually--they are like all other plecos with huge waste production. If you went on size alone, I still wouldn't put them in anything smaller than a 40g otherwise you risk stunting their growth and shortening their lifespans. 2 in a 20g is way too much.

I started similar to OP. Didn't know anything, relied on the big chain petstore people, and ended up with 1 bristlenose, 5 neons, and a guppy in a 10g. Our bristlenose at the time was only half an inch long, but these fish quickly taught me about the nitrogen cycle and bioload of plecos. We lost that first guppy, got another, and then I had to do 50% daily water changes for a month, another 30% twice a week for a month, and then I was able to do 20% weekly water changes. It was a lot of work to get to that point though. Luckily, we were given a 55g with most of the supplies. I did a ton of research and reached out to this community for advice. Within 6 months (total of 8 months), my pleco was too large for the 10g and I had everyone in the 55g. We still have all of those neons and the pleco, but the plecos growth still may have been stunted. We've only had him a year now. He seems fine, but hasn't grown much. He's about 3.5" now.

My advice isn't on what the pet stores say or what random sites recommend. It's personal experience and tough personal lessons. If you truly want these catfish to thrive, you need more space for them. I know the money side must suck in NZ with few options...I'm sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, you may have to look into something else.

Have you checked out otocinclus catfish? They stay small and need groups, plus they're great algae eaters and go well with bettas. They're still catfish and would fit better in your tank.

 

[Coursair]

What jessi said.

One thing that can help speed up the cycle is adding lots of live plants. They come with a coating of beneficial bacteria on their leaves which will help. Plus they give the fish hiding places and look great.

There are plenty of catfish that will fit in a 20 gallon much better than bristle noses.

Is your tank a 20 gallon high or a 20 gallon long ?

Two of my favorite cat fish species are
Corydoras
Otocinclus

Don't throw chemicals in your tank like pH down , it will bounce your pH up-and-down and that is very stressful for the fish.

Keep testing for ammonia and keep it at zero as best you can.

Would you rather have your son see the BN Plecos die ? or would you rather have him enjoy a smaller species that can thrive in that size tank ?

Go very slow adding any new fish. Make sure the ammonia is it safe levels when you add new fish and expect the ammonia to bounce up so keep an eye on it and keep up on water changes.

A new tank won't have algae for BNs. Give them driftwood ( to eat) and caves and blanched zucchini and romaine. They will eat all kinds of things. The Driftwood for Bogwood will have the added benefit of adding tannins to the water which will naturally help lower your pH.

Planet Catfish is my go to for expert advice.
Going forward always try to research before you buy.
http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=49

Corydoras habrosus as well as other fish in my heavily planted 10g. You could have 10 of those in a 20g. They stay 1".
http://youtu.be/JrLx1mKDObY

I wish you continued success with your tank and I hope your fish thrive either in a larger tank or with different tank mates.



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