Ammo lock trouble. High ammonia readings. help?!

[k.jonesy]

ok so when i was starting out in the fish keeping area i had no idea the issues associated with cycling with fish. many of my loved fish were struggling or dying so desperately i ran to my local aquarium who gave me ammo lock (i know now big mistake!) i added the ammo lock for a time and my fish got slightly better. now a few months later my tank is cycled and have happy fish, however, when i test for ammonia my levels are off the charts! i mean waaaay over 8ppm off the charts! my fish dont seem to be showing any signs of ammo stress though so could this high reading be due to the ammo lock? or do i actually have extremely high ammo levels that i need to deal with NOW!? please help! i dont want to lose my beloved fish again!

 

[threnjen]

If your ammonia is that high, your tank is not cycled.

None of this has anything to do with the ammo lock. Ammo lock is fine, and it's not a mistake per se. It will not give you high ammonia readings. The ammonia is in your tank.

How often do you do water changes? You should be changing 50% weekly as a standard once the tank is cycled. If the tank is not cycled, people are frequently doing them every day to keep ammonia levels down during the cycling process.
Your first step is going to be to change 50% of your water EVERY DAY until your ammonia is at .5 or less. You can also do 2 water changes per day, just wait a few hours between them


We can help you.

 

[Delapool]

+1. The ammo lock is keeping the fish safe. Details on tank setup and tap water ammonia levels will help.

 

[k.jonesy]

tank is 60L and was just upgraded from a 30L tank that i thought was cycled since it had been up and running for about 3 months and no signs of fish stress or death. i used the same filter, gravel and 2 driftwood plants from the 30L to help the 60L along. i dont understand how ammo can be so high so quickly as i changed 90% of the water yesterday when swapping the tanks around. PH is 7.0 but ammo is over 8ppm! tap ammo is 0 pH 7.0. after waiting 24hrs Ammo is 0 PH is 6.8

 

[k.jonesy]

i just assumed it was cycled because the fish stopped showing stress and were acting normal and i was told that ammo lock will cause false readings and thought this must have been the reason for the high ammo readings. i will try the water changes and hopefully this will bring it down.

 

[Delapool]

Might be the gravel creating a mini-cycle if it has been all stirred up. Something off anyways but your test sounds fine and ph looks good.

The ammo lock just converts to a safer ammonia form. The bacteria can still use it but slower. Normally if I got a reading of 0.25 after a water change I'd put it down to the ammo lock but otherwise I always get 0.

I've had that as well with a mini-cycle of 5ppm ammonia. Couldn't tell from the fish, even fry were fine.

I could see it gradually go, then nitrites spiked, then back to normal.

Edit - I'd keep an eye on ph while it recycles. Your water changes should keep it steady but it may drop as the cycle catches up.

 

[librarygirl]

I would stop with the Ammo Lock; adding products can often do more harm than good. What dechlorinator are you using? Most dechlorinators temporarily detoxify ammonia so using that alone with water change should help; Prime is one of the best ones but use what you have for now. Just keep doing water changes to bring the ammo down; if there's no ammonia in your tap water, then water changes alone should help bring it down. Also make sure you're vacuuming the substrate very well (particularly if it's gravel) as old fish food and waste can get caught in there and decay which can contribute to water quality.

 

[Delapool]

One for the OP but I have used it for water changes. Now I use API stress coat instead.

http://www.apifishcare.com/product.php?id=654

 

[Mebbid]

The cure for a high ammonia reading is simple, do a 50% water change. If the reading is above 0.25ppm after a 50% change then wait a few hours and do another 50% change. Rinse and repeat until ammonia is gone.

 

[Hobgob]

The cure for a high ammonia reading is simple, do a 50% water change. If the reading is above 0.25ppm after a 50% change then wait a few hours and do another 50% change. Rinse and repeat until ammonia is gone.

Can't get any easier! Then let your tank cycle and never use ammo lock again!

 

[tonedogz]

I have a feeling its your test kit or the products your using or both. Ammolock amquel and prime will all give false readings for high levels of ammonia. I pretty sure with an ammonia level of 8ppm your fish would all be dead.

 

[Mebbid]

I have a feeling its your test kit or the products your using or both. Ammolock amquel and prime will all give false readings for high levels of ammonia. I pretty sure with an ammonia level of 8ppm your fish would all be dead.

I'm not sure about ammolock but prime doesn't cause a false positive with ammonia readings. The prime and ammolock might be the only reason your fish are still alive.

 

[tonedogz]

Read this Seachem. Prime FAQ

 

[Mebbid]

Read this Seachem. Prime FAQ

Yeah, I've seen that.

Are you certain that they aren't referring to the difference between the readings between ammonia and ammonium? If the prime test discrepancy was that severe it would be a much more widespread issue than what people attribute it to. Almost everyone uses prime and 99% of those people use a salicylate test kit such as API. It is not going to give a 8.0ppm reading when there's a 0ppm concentration.

 

[threnjen]

Ammolock amquel and prime will all give false readings for high levels of ammonia.

This is simply a misunderstanding of how ammonia works in the aquarium and what these products do.
Trying to make it short and non-lecturey....
Ammonia can exist in the aquarium in a form harmful to fish called Free Ammonia (NH3). It can also exist in a form NOT harmful to fish called Ammonium (NH4).
Usually, the amount of NH4 to NH3 is ENTIRELY determined by your pH and temperature. Ammonia literally becomes ammonium instantly and vice versa as the ammonia molecules become ionized or deionized as the pH/temp fluctuate. NH3 the harmful ammonia is actually a VERY small percentage of the total ammonia reading which is what the API master test kit gives us (API kit tells us the total sum of NH3 and NH4). In fact it does this by altering the pH of the water so that all of the ammonia is a single type, and then it measures just the one type.

Any sort of dechlor that has an ammonia-locking component is forcibly turning harmful Free Ammonia NH3 into safe Ammonium NH4.
It's not removing it from the water, and it's not giving a "false positive" on the test kits because it is still there.
All of the "locking" products wear off in 24 hours and any free ammonia that has been forced into compliance will again become free ammonia and become harmful.


Sorry that wasn't so short after all.

 

[Mebbid]

Sorry that wasn't so short after all.

Thank you thren for putting that more eloquently than my sleep deprived school abused brain can manage at the moment

 

[threnjen]

Thank you thren for putting that more eloquently than my sleep deprived school abused brain can manage at the moment

LOL I just figured you didn't feel like typing it all out.
On that note I really need to write myself a form of "standard responses" so that when I need to whip out the ammonia lecture I can just C&P...

 

[Mebbid]

LOL I just figured you didn't feel like typing it all out.
On that note I really need to write myself a form of "standard responses" so that when I need to whip out the ammonia lecture I can just C&P...

I was thinking of doing the same thing for responses regarding algae issues

 

[Delapool]

Can't get any easier! Then let your tank cycle and never use ammo lock again!

Can I ask why not? The reason I ask is that I have used it for water changes and fail to understand the problem with using it. Many thanks.

 

[tonedogz]

Yeah, I've seen that.

Are you certain that they aren't referring to the difference between the readings between ammonia and ammonium? If the prime test discrepancy was that severe it would be a much more widespread issue than what people attribute it to. Almost everyone uses prime and 99% of those people use a salicylate test kit such as API. It is not going to give a 8.0ppm reading when there's a 0ppm concentration.

No I don't think its giving and 8ppm I thought it was a combination of things he might be doing