CLEANING the tank during cycling...CONFUSED????

[Bubble_Boy]

it is widely accepted and established that you should NOT clean the filter, vacuum the gravel during cycling.
and ONLY change the water.


fair enough...
BUT...
won't the fish poo constantly build up in the filter and gravel (if you don't clean it)??????
and hence, the ammonia will continue rising and rising????

 

[BrianNY]

Great question. Any tank with fish will cycle on its' own. The speed of the process depends on not only how much ammonia is being produced, but how much area is available for bacteria colonization. As more ammonia is produced so then is more nitrifying bacteria until the tank reaches an equilibrium based on the total biomass.

This is why it's not recommended to clean filters or gravel during cycling, and only partially after cycling. By doing so you'd be slowing down the cycling process by interferring with the equilibrium that's being created naturally.

 

[Bubble_Boy]

that's the problem i'm confused about...

by doing water changes you are ONLY removing the ammonia...

but the ammonia source (fish poo) is still there..

so regardless of the water change...
the ammonia will rise back up again...cuz the fish poo (ammonia source) will continue to produce ammonia unless its removed...

 

[TankGirl]

I too think this is an excellent question! If you read through some threads on peopel having trouble with their cycle, more times than not they have been disturbing the gravel and replacing the filter, or even just rinsing it out, and the cycle stalls.

The bacteria is very "tenuous" in that it is not present everywhere with strong colonies, like it will be later, and it is easy to wipe it out and set you back. Once the tank is established, after months, then you can completely replace your entire filter if you want and it should not even register in terms of water quality. That's also why you'll often see BrianNY and myself recommend adding more filtration, sponge filters specifically, to give the bacteria more places to colonize in the beginning. I have seen this work time and time again to help a cycle along.

 

[hisc1ay]

by doing water changes you are ONLY removing the ammonia...

but the ammonia source (fish poo) is still there..

Exactly. If there is too high a concentration of ammonia, it will 1) hurt any fish you have in there and 2) I think it will even hurt the cycle. By removing some of the ammonia, you're making it less toxic but by leaving the source of the ammonia, you're letting the cycle keep going.

-j

 

[FawnN]

This may just be me, but I personally feel that there is not a significant amount of bacteria in your water and gravel to slow you down tremendously during your cycling.

And I also feel that you should vacuume your gravel during cycling by doing only half your tank at a time.

By doing water changes and vacuuming during cycling, your not trying to remove the ammonia completely, but bring it down to a less harmful level for your fish.

If anything, high levels of ammonia will hurt the growth and slow it down more then water changes. That is what I think.

 

[BrianNY]

WOW this is getting complex now. I think I'm beginning to understand the scope of the question. I'll try and answer as best I can.

1. The fish poo in the gravel bed does not increase the amount of ammonia present in the tank. In other words, once it's there, it's there. It's the biological activity of the fish (and or decomposing organics), which continually produces the source of ammonia.

2. The ammonia that you are measuring in ppm is present in the water column itself. The higher the concentration, the more stress on the fish and the longer the cycle will take. This is because the size of the nitrifying bacteria colony will establish itself based on the amount of ammonia present, and you'll need a massive colony to feed off the ammonia. Doing water changes from the water column alone is beneficial for the cycling. Also, IMO the classic cloudiness after some tanks cycle is due to a higher than needed bacteria colony being established, and a portion of that bacteria dying off. Hence, the bacterial bloom. Gravel vac during the cycle and you can create the same thing by disturbing and killing the bacteria in the gravel which as Tankgirl says, is tenuous.

3. Sponge filters and bio media in your filters are the best place for harboring the nitrifying bacteria. Water is being constantly circulated through these areas and thus are constantly being fed.

HTH