Confused by conflicting advice re ammonia spike in cycling

[jenelle]

Hi all: My 6 day old tank (with 3 happy fish so far) showed increasing levels of ammonia today so I did a 15% water change with Prime. I thought that was the correct procedure, but I just read elsewhere that I was actually supposed to let the ammonia rise so that the nitrites would do their thing, therefore achieving a natural equilibrium for the tank.

Which is the best route considering I want the fish to survive?!

Did I mess it up? I'm totally unclear how I will know when the tank is cycled and ready for a few more fish.

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[Gibberwatt]

The tank is fully cycled when you can test, and not get any ammonia/nitrite, and get around 10-30 nitrates. Until then, what you did was good - when ammonia gets high, its time for a pwc, or your three fish will quickly become zero fish. Keep doing what you are doing.

 

[BBradbury]

Fish In Tank Cycling

Hi all: My 6 day old tank (with 3 happy fish so far) showed increasing levels of ammonia today so I did a 15% water change with Prime. I thought that was the correct procedure, but I just read elsewhere that I was actually supposed to let the ammonia rise so that the nitrites would do their thing, therefore achieving a natural equilibrium for the tank.

Which is the best route considering I want the fish to survive?!

Did I mess it up? I'm totally unclear how I will know when the tank is cycled and ready for a few more fish.

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Hello jen...

When I cycled my first tank, I tested the tank water every day for ammonia and nitrite. If I had a positive test I changed out 25 percent of the tank water. This amount kept the fish happy and still grows the bacteria colony needed to eventually help keep the water clean.

I just tested and removed the water when needed. When several daily tests shows no trace of ammonia or nitrite, the tank is cycled. The process takes a month or so.

B

 

[Masha]

Jenelle, it's possible that the confusion comes in because some of that advice is for cycling with fish, and some for cycling without fish.

With fish in the tank, you can't afford to let the ammonia (or, eventually, nitrite) levels get too high because that will harm the fish - they will either die or be permanently stunted.

If there are no fish in the tank, that's not an issue, and you can let the ammonia levels go nice and high so that the bacteria colony will develop faster.

I've never done a fish-in cycle, so I don't know if this is correct, but I suspect that fish-less cycling is faster, for this reason. But I may very well be wrong about that!

 

[Fishperson]

I agree with what was mentioned so far. There was a myth that beneficial bacteria can't use ammonia when we remove it through water changes, but actually they can survive and thrive on even just trace amounts. What you did was correct, although in my opinion if you are going to take the time to do a water change you might as well one that is 25% or higher.

 

[jenelle]

Oh, whew! Sounds like I am on the right track and will boldly carry on! Next time I will increase to 25%. Thanks!!

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[Rivercats]

When doing an fish-in cycle you need to test ammonia and nitrite levels daily and do a WC any time those levels rise above .25ppm. Also remember once the tank is cycled it will have enough BB to support the amount of fish you have in the tank so when adding more fish to the tank you will have to let BB levels build up for the new amount of fish. Just don't add a bunch of fish at one time or two close together.

 

[jenelle]

Ack! Ammonia still high today so I did a much bigger water change with water sloshing all over from a heavy bucket. Has anyone tried the Marina AquaVac? It looks mighty convenient.

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[jenelle]

How many fish is it reasonable to add at a time? 2? 3? I don't mind taking it slow.

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[absolutangel04]

Ack! Ammonia still high today so I did a much bigger water change with water sloshing all over from a heavy bucket. Has anyone tried the Marina AquaVac? It looks mighty convenient.

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Yes, and it is!
How many more fish and when depends on the parameters you have going now. If the ammonia is rising too fast now, don't add more. When I fish-in cycled a 40g tank, I started with like 4 platies and then waited 2 weeks before getting a couple mollies. Then at least 2 weeks before adding a few cories. Just for a basic idea, but it depends on the tank size and inhabitants.

 

[jenelle]

My husband recently installed fancy faucets in both our bathroom and kitchen. Would you know if an aquavac would attach to a faucet that swivels, sprays, etc?

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[jenelle]

Okay, why is it that when I test for Ammonia an hour after a 25% water change, the level is barely down at all? I am doing everything by the book!


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[carey]

If you have say 1ppm of ammonia and change out 25% then the level would go down to .75. Not a huge difference to be honest. It also means that your fish are pooping and the such faster than what bacteria you have in the tank already and what water you are replacing.

How large is the tank and what 3 fish are in there? 3 mollies vs. 3 goldfish are very different as far as waste they generate.

 

[jenelle]

Well, it's changed a bit since the start of this thread. I have 1 platy, 3 harlequin rasboros and 3 amano shrimp. I added the amano shrimp a bit early because I was taking a rare day trip to Vancouver and could actually get ahold of them. (I can't get them in my small town.)

The tank is 15 gallons. I am using SeaChem's Stability and Prime along the way as recommended on the bottles. I've been doing 25% water changes everyday for 4 days (I'm on Day 8). Basically, I get right on it whenever I see the Ammonia test at .25 or above. I don't know if it can get higher than that without hurting the fishies.

I need to chill out or I'm not going to be having fun anymore!!! I'm starting to get compulsive about testing the water!! I only have an ammonia kit, not nitrite or nitrates. Who knew I'd be throwing all these science-y terms around (I'm an English teacher!).

Jen

 

[Masha]

It can get like that - stressful because you are testing all the time and not feeling in control of what's going on. Things go wrong even though you are doing everything right.

Keep in mind that this is a temporary thing, and even if it's stressful now, things will get a lot easier once you get over this particular bump, so hang in there.

You will eventually need to get a nitrate test kit, and a nitrite kit is useful if you want to know what's going on while the cycle is being established.

Smaller tanks are a bit more difficult as the levels can change so quickly. On the other hand, doing a 50% water change on a small tanks is not quite such a lot of trouble

Others must tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you need to worry that doing a larger than 25% water change at this point is going to harm your fish. Do what you must to keep the water quality good.

Do prepare yourself mentally that this might take a while. I know that's disappointing, but it may be easier to cope if you are not constantly hoping that it will be over soon. But hopefully the bacteria you've been adding will speed things up. Is there any chance of getting a squeezing from the filter of somebody with a cycled tank? That also helps.

 

[absolutangel04]

My husband recently installed fancy faucets in both our bathroom and kitchen. Would you know if an aquavac would attach to a faucet that swivels, sprays, etc?

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Depends on the faucet, but they fit on most. They have adapters for a variety of faucet heads. You would have to look into though and see exactly what you have. I honestly couldn't even make a guess based on a description. If you can get a picture, we might be able to help more. I have doubts it will work for you though, but it is worth looking into.

Here are a few links in case you didn't see them that might help shed some light on things.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/fish-in-cycling-step-over-into-the-dark-side-176446.html
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/guide-to-starting-a-freshwater-aquarium-186089.html

 

[Gibberwatt]

From what I see, an aquavac is a very expensive dohicky to change water with. I don't use that. What I do is get a boring old gravel cleaner, and lodge it on my faucet (which should work for you unless you got one of those fancy arching up and over faucets, in which case its a 50-50), and fill up my bucket with it. It's only con is that it makes an obnoxious noise, but it only costs $10.

 

[jenelle]

I'm getting pretty mixed up! My platy is not doing well, but all the rest are fine. He's hovering low in the tank, hiding in the plants. Either he over-ate (I tried giving a tiny bit of bloodworm yesterday and he stole all of it,then he nibbled on the 1/4 algae wafer I tried to give to the shrimp so this morning I took the wafer out altogether), or my water chemistry is getting bad.

I just did a reading which I don't understand - all with liquid tests.

Ammonia - close to 0.5 (yikes?)
Nitrites - 0 (how can this be?)
Nitrates - 5 (the first palest pink on the nutrafin test - but my ammonia isn't 0, so ?)
pH - around 7.1 (is it true if your pH is lower, the ammonia turns into ammonium which is less harmful?)

I've been doing 25% water changes daily, except today - I only want to do it if I have to because I don't want to stress the platy more than necessary.

Today I added Stability and a .5 ml of Prime.

Should I do a water change? Should I do a 50% water change? Should I just leave it? Any thoughts?

 

[Gibberwatt]

I'm, just wondering, did you get new fish in that last few days? because the BB and your original fish were in equilibrium, with the ammonia produced by the fish turned into nitrate by the BB. and then you add fish. Suddenly, there is more ammonia then there was before, and the BB can't handle it, and there is a small spike in ammonia/nitrite. Your pleco is probably extra sensitive to it.

 

[jenelle]

Good point! Yes, I did add 3 Amano shrimp and 3 rasboros. (I don't have a pleco.). I didn't do a water change yesterday as the ammonia came down to .25 after I added prime and stability. I'll test again this morning.

I've decided not to get the aqua vac. I'm convinced it won't fit my faucets.


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