Cycle

[squarecompass2002]

I am new to this site and the aquarium world I have researched this site looking for an explanation of cycling.
Would someone please explain the cycle process everyone is speaking of?
For everyone who is going to ask I have a 36gal bow front with approximately 20 small community fish guppies’ tetras platys. I have just had to set up a larger tank for my bala and silver tip shark and I also have a South American dragon fish that is what Petsmart called it. I evicted them from there 10 gal ammonium death trap to a 75-gallon mansion.
All my tanks were set up for 7 days without fish and then stocked slowly.
I am waiting on a Rena xp3 for the 75 and in the meantime, I am running a emperor 300 biowheel and a whisper 60 with a power head.
I am new to this and small time so any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[neilanh]

Welcome to the site! We'd be glad to help you out.

There is a link in my sig for the Nitrogen Cycle. This explains what you're asking about.

Since you're adding fish, you're going to cycle the tank with them. It's important that you have a good test kit and are willing to do water changes frequently to keep your fish healthy during the cycle.

There's another link in my sig for fishless cycling. I'd recommend reading that too, and considering taking your fish to the LFS for temporary housing until your tank is cycled.

 

[MisticX]

cycle in a couple of words

1 fish and plants (as well as other stuff) create garbage in your tank
2 garbage decomposes into AMMONIA (NH3)
3 nh3 + water and a little bit of light (h2o) create nitrites (no2)
4 no2 + water and a LOT of light create nitrates (no3)
5 plants + light eat no2 and no3 (more the no2 then the no3)

ammonia nitrites and nitrates are toxic (long term) to your fish
of course they are more toxic if
-- the fish are not habituated
-- the PH of the water is outside the normal limits
-- they oscillate (variate BIG during small periods of time)
-- the water quantity VS the number of fish is small

what i would do (now that i know all this stuff)
buy a tank, 1 single (or a pair) of small fish, all the setup of the tank if possible living plants and create a new tank
once that is done, leave the 2 fish in the water (put fish in 24-36 hrs AFTER setting the tank)

then feed the fish regularly.

 

[CatatonicBug]

I would have to disagree a bit with MisticX.

The concept of cycling without fish is really the best way to go. If you know you have to cycle your tank (as many of us didn't until we found this site ), and you have not purchased fish yet - DON'T!! Set up the tank with lights, filter, plants, substrate, etc., and add ammonia to the water to get the reading up to 3-5 Parts Per Million (ppm). As time goes by, the bacteria that are naturally occuring in the water will consume the ammonia and multiply. They will produce the Nitrites. A new set of naturally-occurring bacteria then consumes the Nitrites and produces Nitrates. The plants love nitrates, and you can just do Partial Water Changes (PWCs) to keep the Nitrate levels down to a reasonable level. As the Ammonia levels drop, keep adding ammonia to the tank to keep the levels up to 3-5ppm. It will get to the point where that amount of ammonia will be consumed in less than 24 hours. Once all that is done (several weeks), you are ready to buy fish. Add all the fish you want to put in there all at once, as your tank is prepared to handle a full bio-load right from the beginning this way.

Now, we know that you cannot go this route, since you already have fish. So, just pay really close attention to the Ammonia and Nitrite levels in your tank and be prepared to do PWCs as needed to keep the levels low. Daily 40-50% PWCs may be needed.

BTW - Welcome to AA!! Post pictures of your tank when you can. We love the visuals!

 

[roka64]

I agree with catatonic.
You should see an ammonia spike, followed by a decline with the rise of nitrItes, a climb in nitrAtes with the decline of nitrItes. Once you see 0 ammonia and nitrItes (highly toxic to fish) do a PWC to lower nitrAtes. I'm not sure where light has much to do with the above, I cycled my tank with no lights and saw the exact same process.
I used raw unseasoned jumbo shrimp from my grocery store. Cost $.52 to cycle my tank.

 

[MisticX]

i agree with catatonic no agreeing with misticx

i think misticx posted the fish-method, with no actual additives (100% natural) while catatonic speaks of the fish-less method.


and then some more, i agree with roka, if you didn't do the mistake of buying lots of fish the first day, the shrimp method rocks (never did it myself, but i hear many people did it and it worked just about better then fine)

 

[CatatonicBug]

I agree with catatonic.
You should see an ammonia spike, followed by a decline with the rise of nitrItes, a climb in nitrAtes with the decline of nitrItes. Once you see 0 ammonia and nitrItes (highly toxic to fish) do a PWC to lower nitrAtes. I'm not sure where light has much to do with the above, I cycled my tank with no lights and saw the exact same process.
I used raw unseasoned jumbo shrimp from my grocery store. Cost $.52 to cycle my tank.

I think the shrimp thing is just gross !

I much prefer the idea of adding pure, clean ammonia to the tank rather than dealing with some rotting flesh that I have to pick out later...

The light is purely for the benefit of the plants. If there are no plants, then doing it in the dark is actually better, as algae like to grow while this is all going on.

 

[CatatonicBug]

i agree with catatonic no agreeing with misticx

i think misticx posted the fish-method, with no actual additives (100% natural) while catatonic speaks of the fish-less method.


and then some more, i agree with roka, if you didn't do the mistake of buying lots of fish the first day, the shrimp method rocks (never did it myself, but i hear many people did it and it worked just about better then fine)

OK, this is creepy... You ARE misticx. At least that's wht it looks like from here.

 

[MisticX]

haha ... just kidding ;P OFC i am MisticX


i know that one of the 2 bacterias that turn ammonia into no2 / no2 into no3 are not chemical bacterias but light-based ones.
i do not remember what site i've read that on.


trouble with added ammonia is sometimes it's not pure ... you do not know exactly what u have in your tank.


and as a solution to the shrimp method, i hear that people bag the shrimp, before adding to the tank, in a water permeable bag.
others just put it under the filter's sponge (make sure filter runs 24/7)

 

[roka64]

This explains it in great detail:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/articles/articles/24/1/Nitrogen-Cycle-/Page1.html

 

[marchmaxima]

I think the shrimp thing is just gross !

I much prefer the idea of adding pure, clean ammonia to the tank rather than dealing with some rotting flesh that I have to pick out later...

I have to use the shrimp method because where I live, you can't get pure high-grade ammonia. I find the method fine!.

That said, I've never picked out the remains later. Once it goes in, it's in! It only takes a few weeks to rot away to nothing. By the time it rots to nothing, you're done cycling. I know others have put it in an unwashed stocking so no handling required.

The only downside to cycling using raw prawn... Anyone who goes within a meter of the tank will ask you what the nasty smell is.

 

[CatatonicBug]

The only downside to cycling using raw prawn... Anyone who goes within a meter of the tank will ask you what the nasty smell is.

The way I figure, a tank should be seen and not smelled
I just think the idea of having rotting anything in the tank is gross, especially if you can see it (and/or smell it). The use of ammonia from a bottle is definitely cleaner and easier, but I understand if you can't get it where you are. Too bad for you!

 

[roka64]

I consider the rotted critter my clean up crew's first meal in their new tank. Mine never smelled....

 

[marchmaxima]

Whether it smells or not depends how much you use. Use a little (enough for a 1.0ppm ammonia level) and it won't smell but it will tank longer to cycle. Use a lot (enough for a 4.0ppm ammonia level) and I got a smell, however I was cycled in 30-ish days.

Well, that's my experience. Unless it was a garlic prawn I added

 

[kimo]

It takes just as long to cycle a new tank whether it is the "fishless method" or by using just a FEW fish. The original purpose of the fishless method was to avoid introducing disease to the tank. As one who has more than 40 yrs experience and a retired LFS owner I know from past experiences the problems newcomers face. The first thing they want to do as soon as the tank comes home is fill it with fish to the max. A big NO-NO.

Cycling a new tank the original way with only a few HEALTHY fish is the easiest and least expensive way to go. Patience is the key. A 10g will cycle in 3 weeks... a 150g will take 8 months. It doesn't matter how you do it, the tank will cycle on its own terms, not ours. But a newcomer hasn't learned the "patience" part of it. They want something in that tank! Do it slow, with HEALTHY fish (you quaranteened them first for at least 3 weeks didn't you?), never overfeed, SMALL (10-15%) water changes every week, plenty of fast growing plants, and the tank will be cycled in no time at all. It sure beats looking at a bare, empty tank for 6 weeks > 6 months and having to resist the urge to fill it because "its not cycled yet!"

 

[CatatonicBug]

It takes just as long to cycle a new tank whether it is the "fishless method" or by using just a FEW fish. The original purpose of the fishless method was to avoid introducing disease to the tank. As one who has more than 40 yrs experience and a retired LFS owner I know from past experiences the problems newcomers face. The first thing they want to do as soon as the tank comes home is fill it with fish to the max. A big NO-NO.

Cycling a new tank the original way with only a few HEALTHY fish is the easiest and least expensive way to go. Patience is the key. A 10g will cycle in 3 weeks... a 150g will take 8 months. It doesn't matter how you do it, the tank will cycle on its own terms, not ours. But a newcomer hasn't learned the "patience" part of it. They want something in that tank! Do it slow, with HEALTHY fish (you quaranteened them first for at least 3 weeks didn't you?), never overfeed, SMALL (10-15%) water changes every week, plenty of fast growing plants, and the tank will be cycled in no time at all. It sure beats looking at a bare, empty tank for 6 weeks > 6 months and having to resist the urge to fill it because "its not cycled yet!"

I'm afraid I have to seriously disagree with you, Kimo.

The purpose of the fishless method is to cycle your tank without exposing any livestock to the toxic, long-term effects of ammonia- and nitrite-poisoning. It's simply more humane, and gives the human a lot more leeway to make mistakes in the first few weeks of the tank's life without harming the fish.

As for the length of time it takes, as long as you start out with 4-5ppm of ammonia in the tank (which would be toxic to fish), you can jump-start the growth of the beneficial bacteria in the filter, without having to wait for the "few healthy fish" to create enough of a mess to make the ammonia levels rise. If you have fish in the tank, you are forced to perform more regular PWCs to keep the ammonia levels low enough so as not to kill off your fish. This lengthens the time it takes to cycle.

I don't have experience cycling a larger tank, but it seems odd to me that a 150g tank would take 8 months to cycle, as long as you keep the ammonia levels up to 4-5ppm. The bacteria grow in the filter, so the volume of water should not make a difference. Can anyone interject on this?

IMO, there is no other way anyone should start a new tank than with a fishless cycle (unless they can seed it from a previously cycled tank). It's clean, humane, and acts as a wonderful learning experience for the new aquarist who may not have the experience with testing water quality.

 

[kimo]

I'm afraid I have to seriously disagree with you, Kimo.

"The purpose of the fishless method is to cycle your tank without exposing any livestock to the toxic, long-term effects of ammonia- and nitrite-poisoning. It's simply more humane, and gives the human a lot more leeway to make mistakes in the first few weeks of the tank's life without harming the fish."

If the usual "few fish" to a cycle is maintained, and the aquarist knows firsthand what his/her ammonia, nitrite, nitrate readings are.... and CORRECTS any "high" readings by doing small water changes.... the fish are never exposed to TOXIC levels of anything.

"As for the length of time it takes, as long as you start out with 4-5ppm of ammonia in the tank (which would be toxic to fish), you can jump-start the growth of the beneficial bacteria in the filter, without having to wait for the "few healthy fish" to create enough of a mess to make the ammonia levels rise. If you have fish in the tank, you are forced to perform more regular PWCs to keep the ammonia levels low enough so as not to kill off your fish. This lengthens the time it takes to cycle."

I am ignoring adding "anything" to hasten the time it takes for the cycle to complete for this discussion. Adding seeded filter material from another tank can introduce unseen diseases. Plants will lengthen the time but will keep ammonia levels down.

"I don't have experience cycling a larger tank, but it seems odd to me that a 150g tank would take 8 months to cycle, as long as you keep the ammonia levels up to 4-5ppm. The bacteria grow in the filter, so the volume of water should not make a difference. Can anyone interject on this?"

I have the 40+ years of experience in setting up 1,000's of tanks (past owner of an LFS)... I have learned the easiest ways of doing things. Now I don't even own a test kit! Don't need it and can tell from the way things are in an aquarium just what it needs/doesn't need, and I adjust before it needs it.

The bacteria grow all ALL wet surfaces of the tank..., in the gravel, on the glass, ornaments, etc., not just the filter.

"IMO, there is no other way anyone should start a new tank than with a fishless cycle (unless they can seed it from a previously cycled tank). It's clean, humane, and acts as a wonderful learning experience for the new aquarist who may not have the experience with testing water quality."

You can cycle a new tank in any manner you want... but the minute you introduce a fish or other livestock, you run the chance of introducing disease, more than not because of conditions outside your control (stressed, sick fish from the LFS, stress from transport, (#1) injury to the slimecoat
from just the act of netting a fish. Now you have done your fishless cycle perfectly, the tank is stable, the filters are doing their job... and you still have sick fish! All from not choosing the right fish from a healthy (hardly ever) LFS tank and keeping them in isolation for at least 3 weeks (how many newbies do you know that have put their first store bought fish into an isolation tank (read this as "what? I need another tank?")?

I'm not trying to knock your way of doing things... to me its just a lot of extra work that doen't need to be done. Staring at an empty tank for 3-6 weeks while it cycles is not what the customer wants.

 

[marchmaxima]

The purpose of the fishless method is to cycle your tank without exposing any livestock to the toxic, long-term effects of ammonia- and nitrite-poisoning. It's simply more humane, and gives the human a lot more leeway to make mistakes in the first few weeks of the tank's life without harming the fish.

If you have fish in the tank, you are forced to perform more regular PWCs to keep the ammonia levels low enough so as not to kill off your fish. This lengthens the time it takes to cycle.

I also agree with these statements. I think you're confusing as to why many people here advocate fishless cycling over cycling with fish. It doesn't have anything to do with preventing the introduction of disease. As you rightly point out Kimo, quarantining is the most effective strategy for this.

Just personally, I prefer the fishless cycling method. I am pleased to stare at an empty tank for a few weeks if it means I won't cause my fish to be exposed to any potentially harmful ammonia and nitrite levels. Exposure to ammonia and nitrite during a cycle is likely to shorten their potential lifespan.

Once these themes are explained to the newbies, I have personally found that they are willing to explore the fishless cycle method, just like I was. And are then you find that they are more receptive to the concepts of quarantining, etc.

 

[kimo]

I also agree with these statements. I think you're confusing as to why many people here advocate fishless cycling over cycling with fish. It doesn't have anything to do with preventing the introduction of disease. As you rightly point out Kimo, quarantining is the most effective strategy for this.

Just personally, I prefer the fishless cycling method. I am pleased to stare at an empty tank for a few weeks if it means I won't cause my fish to be exposed to any potentially harmful ammonia and nitrite levels. Exposure to ammonia and nitrite during a cycle is likely to shorten their potential lifespan.

Once these themes are explained to the newbies, I have personally found that they are willing to explore the fishless cycle method, just like I was. And are then you find that they are more receptive to the concepts of quarantining, etc.

IF you use AmQuel+ (don't know if its available in Australia) as a water conditioner, you will never have to worry about ammonia, nitrite spikes.
It removes chlorine, chloramine, heavy metals, toxic organics. It locks up the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates but still makes it available to the bacteria and plants. If you catch the spikes in time the fish will never be exposed to toxic levels.

For an example of lifespan: I bought 6 neon tetras in 1991. Three are still alive and well... 7 years for a neon is like 150 yrs for a human. The other three lived for more than 5 yrs. I raise fancy guppies to sell and they live for an average of 3.5 - 4 years. Thats 1.5 times longer than usual.

Everyone has their own way of doing things... It's just that after 40+ yrs I have found ways to do things the EASIEST way. Never having to worry about a cycle gets things off to a great start.

 

[marchmaxima]

Never having to worry about a cycle gets things off to a great start.

Here! here!