Cycling help

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pahunter3

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
May 16, 2023
Messages
14
Hey everyone,

My 5 year old son has been asking for a community tank for a while now and the wife and I finally decided it was time to let him get one. I actually kept my 20 gallon tank from when I was younger and set it up for him. It's been a while since I've kept fish and my first time trying a fishless cycle. I always did a fish in cycle and just tried to stay on top of water changes until my tank cycled. I am trying to avoid losing fish right off the bat for him.

I am about 3 weeks into my cycle and it seems to have hit a wall. I have attached my latest readings. My ammonia levels don't seem to be going down even though I have nitrite and nitrate readings. Any advice on how to get the cycle to finish? Is my nitrite reading too high and I need to do a water change to bring it down? Or do I just need to be more patient and let it do it's thing?

I appreciate all the help!PXL_20230517_004150544.jpg
 
Hi and welcome to the forum :)

Look at all the pretty colours in those phials :)

Just wait, it normally takes around 4-6 weeks to cycle a filter, sometimes longer. The fact you have nitrite means there is some bacteria eating the ammonia and converting it into nitrite.

The nitrate is probably a false reading. Nitrate test kits read nitrite as nitrate and give you incorrect nitrate readings. Don't bother testing for nitrate until the ammonia and nitrite have both gone up, and then come back down to 0ppm. When that happens, the filter should be cycled. then you can start testing for nitrates and get accurate readings. :)
 
How are you dosing ammonia? How much ammonia are you dosing each time you dose? How often do you do this?
I have a bottle of Dr. Tim's ammonium chloride. I haven't regularly been dosing it because I haven't seen it really start to drop. I brought it up to about 2.0 ppm and it sat there for a while until it started to slightly drop. I added just enough to bring it back up to 2.0 ppm
 
Hi and welcome to the forum :)

Look at all the pretty colours in those phials :)

Just wait, it normally takes around 4-6 weeks to cycle a filter, sometimes longer. The fact you have nitrite means there is some bacteria eating the ammonia and converting it into nitrite.

The nitrate is probably a false reading. Nitrate test kits read nitrite as nitrate and give you incorrect nitrate readings. Don't bother testing for nitrate until the ammonia and nitrite have both gone up, and then come back down to 0ppm. When that happens, the filter should be cycled. then you can start testing for nitrates and get accurate readings. :)
Thanks for the warm welcome and I appreciate the advice. I normally don't test for nitrates but I thought I saw a slight drop in nitrites so I wanted to see if there was a corresponding spike in nitrates. Having a visual of all 3 I figured it was a good time to reach out and see where you all thought I was at in my cycle. And if you all had any suggestions on how to finish it out. I've read places that if your ammonia or nitrites are too high it could stall the cycle.
 
If it drops to below 1ppm then redose it back to 2ppm. Apart from that it just takes time.

If nitrite goes higher than the test can reach you might want to change some water. Just so you keep nitrite at detectable levels rather than it just going up and up and up and you having no idea what it is at. A water change can also get also a stalled cycle going again.

Are you adding any "bacteria in a bottle"? If so, what product are you using?
 
If it drops to below 1ppm then redose it back to 2ppm. Apart from that it just takes time.

If nitrite goes higher than the test can reach you might want to change some water. Just so you keep nitrite at detectable levels rather than it just going up and up and up and you having no idea what it is at. A water change can also get also a stalled cycle going again.

Are you adding any "bacteria in a bottle"? If so, what product are you using?
Thanks for the advice on the water change. I might try it, like 25% since the nitrites are flirting with that undetectable range. I did try some of that bacteria in a bottle, I added it once and it didn't seem to do anything. l wanted to get Dr. Tim's but I ended up just grabbing one that they carried at PetSmart. I think it was called Topfin Readistart.
 
You are 3 weeks into what could easily be a 10 or 12 week process.

We get a lot of traffic here with people struggling to get tanks cycled. By far, more people have trouble with fishless cycle than fish in. They don't understand the process or expect it to run to unrealistic timescales. Almost without fail switching to a fish in cycle, if done properly, resolves the issue. As said, you are at the beginning of the process. While it is progressing a little slower than normal, a fish in cycle is something to consider. Im sure a 5 year old would like to see something swimming around.

Out of interest, what are the plans for the tank?
 
You are 3 weeks into what could easily be a 10 or 12 week process.

We get a lot of traffic here with people struggling to get tanks cycled. By far, more people have trouble with fishless cycle than fish in. They don't understand the process or expect it to run to unrealistic timescales. Almost without fail switching to a fish in cycle, if done properly, resolves the issue. As said, you are at the beginning of the process. While it is progressing a little slower than normal, a fish in cycle is something to consider. Im sure a 5 year old would like to see something swimming around.

Out of interest, what are the plans for the tank?
Yeah that is kind of where I'm at, trying to convince a 5 year old that is a process that just takes time. He has been helping me check the water daily and he knows that we need to get the water right before adding fish but he's getting anxious. Every time he says "what color does it need to be this time to get fish?"

I think we are going to do a single dwarf gourami, a group of neon tetras and some corys for the bottom. I've strongly considered doing a couple water changes to get the ammonia and nitrites down and do a fish in cycle with the single dwarf gourami. I initially wanted to add him last since some people say they can be territorial and I figured adding him to a community might help with that vs. trying to add more fish after he's been there for a while. Do you think it would be a problem getting him first for the cycle and then adding the neons later?
 
Yeah that is kind of where I'm at, trying to convince a 5 year old that is a process that just takes time. He has been helping me check the water daily and he knows that we need to get the water right before adding fish but he's getting anxious. Every time he says "what color does it need to be this time to get fish?"

I think we are going to do a single dwarf gourami, a group of neon tetras and some corys for the bottom. I've strongly considered doing a couple water changes to get the ammonia and nitrites down and do a fish in cycle with the single dwarf gourami. I initially wanted to add him last since some people say they can be territorial and I figured adding him to a community might help with that vs. trying to add more fish after he's been there for a while. Do you think it would be a problem getting him first for the cycle and then adding the neons later?
This is a good lesson in patience for your Son and will do him good when it comes to the fish keeping hobby. Patience pays. (y)

At this point, I would wait it out and not switch to a fish in cycle. I have used in the past Fritzyme #7 with great success to help establish the bacteria bed. It's one of the few " Bacteria in a bottle" products that actually works. This can help speed up the process.

Also, Dwarf Gourami varieties are not like they used to be. Many now carry the Iridovirus so not really a good fish to keep as the virus is not curable. On the whole they are not a good fish for new tanks either so I'd make another choice. :whistle:
 
What would you recommend for a good centerpiece type fish? I was leaning towards the dwarf or honey gourami and he seemed to like the dwarf better because of the colors.
 
You could try adding some sodium bicarbonate to boost the alkalinity which is one of the things that gets drawn on by the microbes when performing a fishless cycle.

If the alkalinity is depleted then the cycle could stall.

It would be interesting to hear if the ammonia started dropping again after adding some sodium bicarbonate.
 
You could try adding some sodium bicarbonate to boost the alkalinity which is one of the things that gets drawn on by the microbes when performing a fishless cycle.

If the alkalinity is depleted then the cycle could stall.

It would be interesting to hear if the ammonia started dropping again after adding some sodium bicarbonate.
Last time I checked my pH it was on the higher side. I want to say 7.8 or 7.6, I can't remember exactly. But I'll check again later tonight. Would I want to add sodium bicarbonate even if it's in the high 7's?
 
Last time I checked my pH it was on the higher side. I want to say 7.8 or 7.6, I can't remember exactly. But I'll check again later tonight. Would I want to add sodium bicarbonate even if it's in the high 7's?


Yeah just as an experiment. You can do a water change to get it back to where you want it to be.
 

If that's the case, you might want to look into schools of smaller fish instead of one single larger " centerpiece" fish.
Neon Tetras should really be in tanks with a lower Ph water so I'm not sure how well they will do in your water. That said, I know I've kept them in shops in water with high(ish) Ph but believe they do not live a " full lifespan" when doing so. Better fish for High Ph water like yours are fish like Platies, Guppies, smaller species of Mollies, Endler's Livebearers, Zebra Danios, Half Beaks, Golden wonder killies, some gudgeons, Pseudomugil Furcartus ( blue eye rainbowfish) are just some of the fish that can do well in your tank and water so that you don't need to change or alter anything. (y)
 
Well hopefully patience was a virtue. After a couple more weeks I think I successfully cycled his tank. I did a couple water changes in the span of that time, anytime the nitrites went off the charts. It was converting ammonia to nitrites (slowish) but it seemed like the nitrites weren't going down. I turned the temp up to 82 and added an air stone. I added some ammonia and we went away to camp for the holiday weekend. I expected to come back to a lower ammonia reading and nitrites off the charts. I first checked the ammonia, it was down to zero. That was a good sign I thought, now time to check the nitrites. I couldn't believe it when they were down to zero too. I figured I should check nitrates and they were pretty high so I did a partial water change and added ammonia. When I got home from work Tuesday, ammonia and nitrites were back to zero. I did another partial water change and figured we were ready for fish.

We just got back from the LFS and he decided to start the tank with some corydoras. We got 4 julii corys and he couldn't have been more excited. We were checking out the other fish and he's trying to figure out what he wants. I'm having a real hard time keeping him away from the dwarf gourami. He just really loves the colors in the neon blue ones. I may have to bite the bullet and cross my fingers we get a healthy one.

The corys are loving the air stone and are going up and down playing in it. He's getting a kick out of them and to be honest, I'm surprised how active they are too. For his sake I hope they stay that way.

I play on checking the water twice a day for the first week or so. How long do you guys think I should wait until I add the next fish?
 
Theoretically, if you are cycling out 2ppm of ammonia in 24 hours you can fully stock the tank. I would personally be a bit more cautious and give it a week of seeing no ammonia or nitrite in your tests and add another 3 or 4 fish, continue to monitor for another week, add some more etc etc until you are fully stocked.

A couple more corys to make a bigger group will make them more comfy.
 
Theoretically, if you are cycling out 2ppm of ammonia in 24 hours you can fully stock the tank. I would personally be a bit more cautious and give it a week of seeing no ammonia or nitrite in your tests and add another 3 or 4 fish, continue to monitor for another week, add some more etc etc until you are fully stocked.

A couple more corys to make a bigger group will make them more comfy.
I thought that but I still didn't want to fully stock right off the bat just in case I overlooked something.

Do you think I could get away with adding two corys if I wanted to add a group of neons or cardinal fish? I figure I'll need about 7-8 of those. Plus the DG.

I saw someone post a link for a calculator that took everything into consideration for biolad instead of just the 1 inch of fish per gallon rule. I put the size of my tank, filter type and how I wanted to stock. I'll have to find it again but when I first looked I think I did 8 cardinals, 4 corys and a dwarf gourami and I was only at 80% bioload. I didn't want to be maxed out but if adding 2 corys would help them and not effect my bioload TOO much, I would consider it.
 
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